Civil Service Pensions

[manshimajin]

I see that the CM has commented on progress with the review of the CS Pension schemes.

 

CS Pensions

 

There seems to be some controversy over whether the current schemes are costing the taxpayer through general revenue £44 million or £30 million per annum. Either way this is a huge amount. The report says that costs to taxpayer are escalating at 10% p.a. Currently the public contribution to the CS pension schemes seems like the cost of building a new runway every year! Does anyone have thoughts on where this is heading? One of the comments on the page is:

If you assume that on average a Manx family is 4 people each family is currently paying on average a subsidy of about £2,100 a year for civil service pensions - and most of us are not benefitting from receiving the CS pension. If nothing is done and costs continue to escalate at 10% p.a. (due in part to the demographic changes involved) in 10 years time this subsidy would be just short of £5,000 and in 20 years time £13,000.

Is there any likelihood that we will end up with a scheme that does not require subsidising by the taxpayer?

[manxman8180]

Probably not. Although it will be less funded I guess is the ultimate aim.

 

Public Servants are paid through Government revenues (i.e. the taxpayer), so where else would the employers pension contribution come from? Unless you do away with that altogether, of course.

 

However, the confusion over the figures needs addressing. Both figures are high, yes, but they are significantly different. Who are we suppose to believe?

[Tugger]

My wish list:

 

In private sector pensions, the employee takes all the risk regarding investment performance. In public sector pensions, the taxpayer takes all that risk. I'd like it to be shouldered by the employees, just as now happens, almost without exception, in the private sector.

 

Employee contributions also need to increase as a percentage of the overall contribution.

 

And the number of people employed in the public sector needs to come down.

[Higgy]

My wish list:

 

In private sector pensions, the employee takes all the risk regarding investment performance. In public sector pensions, the taxpayer takes all that risk. I'd like it to be shouldered by the employees, just as now happens, almost without exception, in the private sector.

 

Employee contributions also need to increase as a percentage of the overall contribution.

 

And the number of people employed in the public sector needs to come down.

Which one's do you sacrifice? civil servants, doctors, police, road diggers, firemen, water board or mea?

[manshimajin]

Which one's do you sacrifice? civil servants, doctors, police, road diggers, firemen, water board or mea?

I would guess that such decisions would have to be based on VFM and productivity not emotional gut feelings.

[Higgy]

There's one good thing that's come out of all this. It's highlighted the need for everyone to contribute the same amount and work the same length of time

[manxman2]

privitisation/sub contract isnt all bad then if it does away with a fair percentage of the leeches..

 

whats the point of paying someone a full pension after 25 years service when they can retire in their early to mid 40s .. and go and earn a fulltime wage elsewhere.

 

if they decide to carry on working then they should forgo the pension or the vast majority of it.

 

thats why they are called retirement pensions ffs..

 

just look around you to see how many people stick their snouts back in the government trough .. dudley a prime example.. .. it stinks..

[Stu Peters]

Hang on a minute - if you've worked, made the contributions and you're entitled to a pension, whether you choose to spend your days gardening or doing something with pay attached should surely be your choice and not one made for you?

 

My plan when I was a businessman at 40 in Manchester was to retire to the Isle of Man at 55 on a whacking personal pension plan, and keep my hand in by doing some radio presenting and video work. Sadly, I lost my shirt, business, private pension and everything else on a bad deal so will now probably have to work until I fall over dead. Early retirement was probably a good idea once (and way of minimising unemployment figures by freeing up jobs), but the plot seems to have changed. I'm a late entrant into the public sector pension lark, and will only get a certain number of qualifying years in, so I'll HAVE to keep working long after retirement age.

 

Thing that riles me about this is the disparity between the schemes - the usual old boys get a much better deal than the proles as always, and the politicians who will decide this are way above having THEIR schemes looked into. Equality on Animal Farm springs to mind.

[keyboarder]

will now probably have to work until I fall over dead.

Hmm. Not really work though is it?....... ; )

[Sentience]

Hang on a minute - if you've worked, made the contributions and you're entitled to a pension, whether you choose to spend your days gardening or doing something with pay attached should surely be your choice and not one made for you?

 

My plan when I was a businessman at 40 in Manchester was to retire to the Isle of Man at 55 on a whacking personal pension plan, and keep my hand in by doing some radio presenting and video work. Sadly, I lost my shirt, business, private pension and everything else on a bad deal so will now probably have to work until I fall over dead. Early retirement was probably a good idea once (and way of minimising unemployment figures by freeing up jobs), but the plot seems to have changed. I'm a late entrant into the public sector pension lark, and will only get a certain number of qualifying years in, so I'll HAVE to keep working long after retirement age.

 

Thing that riles me about this is the disparity between the schemes - the usual old boys get a much better deal than the proles as always, and the politicians who will decide this are way above having THEIR schemes looked into. Equality on Animal Farm springs to mind.

 

In complete agreement Mr Peters.

Ironic isn't it that those who will be party to signing any new pension deal are those that won't be affected by it. They will still have the old, more than likely, better deal.

Well, we elected 'em

[Sentience]

will now probably have to work until I fall over dead.

Hmm. Not really work though is it?....... ; )

 

What a div

[Dudley Butt]

just look around you to see how many people stick their snouts back in the government trough .. dudley a prime example.. .. it stinks..

 

 

Cannot resist this. I was not a civil servant, paying hardly anything towards a pension.

 

I paid 11% of my wage, every week, for 39 years - to pay for my pension. I am informed that to get my money back I will need to live to 83 but I am not sure how accurate that is.

 

I - like all Police Officers - paid for my own pension at a much higher rate than most. I am indeed fortunate to be in the job I now have, but I work for that wage and I make sure I put in the effort and hours to give value for money, like I have all my working life.

 

Edit to add: And I agree that pensions of members of Tynwald should be treated exactly the same as others and should be part of any review.

[vikingdoom]

I work for this government and am sick of people saying they are subsidising my pension. i have paid into this scheme for 22 years and now find that they want to mess with my future. our pension fund has been used to pay for several capital projects and now they realise there is no money left in the pot. they paid for the MEA, IRIS, the hospital, the prison, and now the airport extension. why should we be punished for this governments mismanagement? why have the mhks opted out when you are funding them totally, they pay no contributions whatsoever towards their pension. they picked on us because we are an easy target, but this will ruin the health service on this island, and with the end of the health agreement with the uk where will you go? i am lucky enough to have sold my house and will be taking my pension back to the uk where farmers and shopkeepers are'nt allowed to waste public money.

[Wake Up Call]

I work for this government and am sick of people saying they are subsidising my pension. i have paid into this scheme for 22 years and now find that they want to mess with my future. our pension fund has been used to pay for several capital projects and now they realise there is no money left in the pot. they paid for the MEA, IRIS, the hospital, the prison, and now the airport extension. why should we be punished for this governments mismanagement? why have the mhks opted out when you are funding them totally, they pay no contributions whatsoever towards their pension. they picked on us because we are an easy target, but this will ruin the health service on this island, and with the end of the health agreement with the uk where will you go? i am lucky enough to have sold my house and will be taking my pension back to the uk where farmers and shopkeepers are'nt allowed to waste public money.

 

You are absolutely right. It is the knob heads who made the decisions that got our finances into this situation should get stripped of their pensions.

[Slim]

Many of us on private pensions have also paid in for years. Final salary pensions aren't available to us, because we're not civil servants. Our pensions have been hammered, mines down some 30% in value, that's money I've saved, money I could have spent, money I'll never see, it's gone and considerable amounts too. Now I find I've not only got to take that loss, but my tax dollars have got to pay for the loss again in the public pensions.

 

Why should your pension be 100% guaranteed and safe, the losses paid for by me?

 

Same goes for pay reviews. Private sector taking no rises, or even cuts through this tough period, and government workers getting rises as normal. Fair?