Never To Return By Hampton Creer

[bluemonday]

Very interesting read.

Particularly when it covers the horrendous living conditions most of the Manx had to endure in those times.

[Skeddan]

bluemonday - I've not read this - perhaps you might be able to answer this -

 

"Never to Return" by Hampton Creer (ISBN No 0 952 4019 7 5) is a detailed and graphic account of the 200 Manx prisoners who were deported to the penal colonies, starting from 1698 and ending in 1862. .... One of his ancestors, a Christian Hampton, was among the first group of prisoners to be deported from the Isle of Man to Jamaica in 1698 and was never heard of again.

http://fp.jacreer2.f9.co.uk/General%20Interest.htm

 

in 1816 the Manx law did not allow for transporation [sic] but changes brought in in 1817 to align Manx Law better with English Law allowed this punishment.

http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/fu...1844/kewley.htm

 

Does Creer explain how under Manx law that people were transported prior to 1817 or even 1765 when the UK took charge of IoM? Was this a commuting of the death sentence that the convicted chose as an alternative punishment, or was this deportation from the Island - i.e. exclusion rather than penal servitude? Also I didn't think there were any penal colonies as early as 1698. Did most of the transportation take place after 1817 / 1765, and were the cases before then an exception and aberrant and possibly illegal?

[bluemonday]

Prior to 1817, transportation was deemed to be showing 'clemency' and didn't seem to be regarded as a punishment in itself.

 

Some of the convicted themselves petitioned to be transported preferring that to execution.

 

It seems that the system was corrupt - no surprise there, and verdicts were on some occasions overturned when the accused was aquitted.

 

1820s/30s was the peak period.

 

1697 was the first recorded incident - 12 people. - Jamaica.

 

They were allowed to avoid the death penalty on the order of Lord Deby via his Governor and Deemsters providing they agreed to go.

Derby wasn't concerned if they were hung or sent away as long as one way or another, they were removed from the IOM.

 

Given that the 'trials' themselves were heavily weighted against the accused, it just seems an easy way of providng labour overseas.

 

The book really centres on the people involved and not the legality or otherwise of the sentence. My understanding (such as it is) is that the early cases were not legal.

 

Still reading it.

[macmannin]

Hampton still farms up at Ballabunt at the Cooil.Often to be found in the manx musuem archive library so ive heard.He also found out who the real Jinny the Witch was,a certain Joana looney fron the mount murray back road.Sadly its more halloween/trick or treat than Hop Tuu Naa these days..

[Skeddan]

Thanks very much for that bluemonday.

 

Prior to 1817, transportation was deemed to be showing 'clemency' and didn't seem to be regarded as a punishment in itself.

 

Some of the convicted themselves petitioned to be transported preferring that to execution.

 

They were allowed to avoid the death penalty on the order of Lord Deby via his Governor and Deemsters providing they agreed to go.

 

Derby wasn't concerned if they were hung or sent away as long as one way or another, they were removed from the IOM.

 

1697 was the first recorded incident - 12 people. - Jamaica.

 

IOM.1820s/30s was the peak period.

 

I'm wondering if prior to 1817 (or at least 1765) what was going on was not transportation to penal colonies, but deportation and banishment. When someone had been sentenced to death, the Lord of Mann could commute the sentence, and it was up to the convicted to choose whether or not to accept this (most preferred that to execution).

 

It was well established in Manx law that one of the ways a death sentence could be commuted was the alternative lesser punishment of deportation and banishment 'never to return'. The convicted had to leave IoM and was under and 'exclusion order' for life. (A bit like Andy Kershaw voluntarily choosing to leave IoM rather than go to prison - only with death sentence vs. banishment for life).

 

As far as I'm aware it was up to the individual to choose where to go, and there was no punishment beyond the banishment. They were at liberty - provided they left the island and did not return. I think many went to England (well, that's where the boat in the morning went). However after leaving IoM 'never to return', quite possibly some might have decided to head off for Jamaica to resettle there.

 

Prior to 1817/1765 transportation and penal servitude in a penal colony was not an option for commuting a sentence as far as I'm aware. (I think the law limited the alternatives that the Lord of Mann could grant in exercising this prerogative). Furthermore IoM was distinct from the UK, and I think they could no more order people to be sent to English penal colonies than they could order them to be sent to French ones. Jamaica was of course a dominion of the Crown. Also it wasn't a penal colony as far as I know - in England prior to 1776 the penal transportation was to the American colonies / New England, not Jamaica.

 

So, to hazard a guess, this was not 'penal transportation', but a death sentence commuted to banishment - an exclusion order from IoM 'never to return'.

 

I came across this:

TRANSPORTATION RECORDS

 

The earliest I have come across was the transportation of William and Thomas Watterson who escaped out of gaol in Liverpool and were sent after capture to William Leece a Merchant in Liverpool on the 12th August 1786, to be conveyed first to London and then to the Coast of Africa and to be landed at the Bay of Honduras.

 

http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/fa...11spd.htm#38-39

 

In this instance this clearly was not banishment and exclusion from IoM, but penal transportation to the British penal colony in Roatan in what is now Honduras. (if this is a record of the sentence, it also seems to have included specifying how to be delivered there - via Africa, so presumably as prisoner on a slave ship).

 

So, banishment 'never to return' and penal transportation are quite different ('boat in the morning - and don't come back' vs. transportation by slave ship to serve hard labour in 'Devil's island'), and my guess is that prior to 1765 there was only banishment, and that penal transportation only began in IoM after UK took charge of IoM in 1765.

 

Have you come across anything in Hampton Creer's book which provides any evidence or reason to suppose otherwise?

[Skeddan]

Just a suggestion, Skeddan.... if you're so interested, why not buy the bloody book!

Bluemonday's post was very helpful and got me thinking more about this, so I thought I'd ask bluemonday about that in the meantime. But good suggestion - something I should get round to doing.

[bluemonday]

Skeddan, sorry but I just don't have the time to read and finish the book at the moment.

 

Although I would say again that the focus is the people involved and not the legal system which be it Manx or english ,seems to have been very unjust and oppressive in an environment which itself seems to have been not much above starvation level for most of the Manx.

[Skeddan]

No worries bluemonday - but thanks very much again for the info you gave earlier. Even if it doesn't cover legal issues, it still sounds very interesting from what you've said, and I'll be taking up Lonan3's suggestion .