smiler Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 My tuppence worth is that anyone feeling embarrassed by a mother feeding is the one with the problem - no matter where or when. And Minnie (I don't mean to single you out but...), since when do we alter our behaviour in case it might embarrass our kids? Kids get embarrassed by anything at that age, they have to learn to deal with things that embarrass them, it's all part of growing up. I personally feel that no-one should feel embarrassed by a naked breast, let alone a baby feeding. What is the big deal about breasts? It can't be the nipple, cos men have them and are free to show them whenever they like - it can't be the fatty tissue, cos again men (fat ones anyway) have that too...there's no real reason. Even on the beach over here you rarely get people topless....it's social conditioning, pure and simple. And I really don't get how you can compare breastfeeding your baby to having sex in public! Jay - I see where you're coming from but there are babies and children in adverts/on TV programmes/films etc all the time....is that wrong?
Minnie Posted July 13, 2004 Author Posted July 13, 2004 ust one of a few who aren't afraid to say something just because it may be unpopular. Possibly - but she doesn't seem to be afraid of having LOTS to say about LOTS of unpopular issues. Sorry - but it smacks of someone enjoying having a fight to me. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're right, I'm not afraid of voicing my opinion that's what forums are for after all, but I'm not aware that I've upset anyone. I started this topic, I'm bound to join in and have my say. I enjoy voicing my opinion, as many do on here, and I enjoy discussing my views and seeing others views, I'm not fighting with anyone........fighting's best left in the playground (a playground free from breastfeeding mothers!) I'm not the only person who posts on here with strong views, so why single me out?
Observer Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 Blah, blah,... I wasn't exactly uptight about it, I just felt that in the middle of a school playground, at going home time, lots of parents and young children about, was an inappropriate time and place. Blah, blah.......I also feel that if you have older children, say in the 9-11 age bracket and in particular boys, you're leaving them open to ridicule/bullying if their school friends see their mother doing this in the playground............."we saw such and such's mum's boobs" etc. Blah, blah......I don't teach my children that the naked body is a dirty, wrong thing but I do have a problem with my eldest son in particular, who is 10, seeing another woman's boobs when there's absolutely no need. I think if a woman wants to breastfeed her baby and there are other children about she should at least ask the other mothers if they mind her doing it in front of children. Not everyone will have a problem with this but I do.........Blah, blah... Blah, blah.....It can never be done completely discreetly. Once the baby's latched on, yes, but the physical task of actually gettin yer boob out is pretty hard to do discreetly. Blah, blah......I just didn't see it was necessary for her to start feeding her baby amongst the other mothers, fathers and children. Blah, blah...I said earlier that I don't bring up my children to think the naked human body is a dirty, smutty thing or something to be embarrassed about, but it's also a very personal thing and not to be flaunted in front of all and sundry.Blah, blah... I don't find it embarassing personally, but my children might. If I had a friend with a baby who came to visit at my house I'd be quite disgusted if she started to feed her baby in front of me and my children without first asking if I minded her doing it. Blah, blah....Yes, it's a very natural act, but if a mother breastfeeding puts my children in a embarassing situation then I'm going to speak up and express my concerns, I'm afraid. Blah, blah... but if my son is uncomfortable about a lady having her boobs out then I'm going to do what I can to stop him from being embarassed.Blah.....blah....I don't find the act of breastfeeding disgusting, but I would have a problem with a woman, in my home, in front of my children, not first asking if it's a problem with her getting her boob out to feed her child. Blah, blah......It's not the act of breastfeeding that causes embarrassment, it's the baring of a breast that causes the embarrassment. Blah, blah... I have a problem, not with mothers breastfeeding in public generally, but with my children being subjected to something that may potentionally cause them embarassment or unease. If your child was embarrassed in a certain situation you would do what you could to avoid them being embarassed and take them out of that situation, that is your duty and right as a parent. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Throughout your posts, your own embarassment with other womens nudity is prevalent. Yet, you say you are not embarassed? You say you are protecting your children from potential embarassment and discomfort and yet YOU are deciding for them that it is an embarassing situation - hence your statement that you would certainly have your children leave the room should a mother need to feed. This is YOUR embarassment not your childrens and any embarassment that they have now developed in such circumstances has been taught to them by you. You say you are not disgusted by it and yet also say that you would be disgusted at the suggestion of a mother feeding her child in front of your children. Throughout, you maintain that you are protecting your children from a POTENTIAL embarassment yet by removing them from the situation you have created exactly that - an embarassing situation. Your discomfort is with another woman's breast on display - you liken this natural act to the act of people fornicating in public?!?! EH?!?!? One is an act of nourishment and the other is an act of sexual fulfillment - hardly the same thing at all. It is your discomfort that is the issue, not the childrens. Children are born entirely free of hangups and know nothing of embarassment - these are things we teach them. It's all conditioning.
Speckled Frost Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 My comparison with breast feeding and sex in public is to show how argument about what is natural could follow to this conclusion.
Jay Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 ust one of a few who aren't afraid to say something just because it may be unpopular. Possibly - but she doesn't seem to be afraid of having LOTS to say about LOTS of unpopular issues. Sorry - but it smacks of someone enjoying having a fight to me. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Is there a limit to the amount one is allowed to say? What unpopular issues?
Minnie Posted July 13, 2004 Author Posted July 13, 2004 My tuppence worth is that anyone feeling embarrassed by a mother feeding is the one with the problem - no matter where or when.And Minnie (I don't mean to single you out but...), since when do we alter our behaviour in case it might embarrass our kids? Kids get embarrassed by anything at that age, they have to learn to deal with things that embarrass them, it's all part of growing up. And I really don't get how you can compare breastfeeding your baby to having sex in public! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm NOT embarassed by a breastfeeding mother. Of course embarrassment is part of growing up, but I would not let my child feel uneasy in a situation he feels embarrassed in. I would take him out of that situation, if he wants to ask questions I will answer them. Some children are shy about things, that's just part of their make-up. The point I was making about breastfeeding and having sex in public, was that people go on about breastfeeding being natural, as is having sex, but not all people find doing this in public acceptable. Being natural doesn't automatically make it acceptable to all people.
Jay Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 Don't patronise me please...... . <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The pot calling the kettle black arse?
Speckled Frost Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 There are lots of absurdities through social conditioning but many of them have become oddly necessary to avoid anarchy. I don't believe breast feeding in public to be one of them but I can see how someone like Minnie has become offended and she shouldn't be castiagted for her views. It seems somewhat rich that people are preaching an open-minded approach to this issue yet slam someone for actually having an opposing view.
Observer Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 Don't patronise me please...... . <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The pot calling the kettle black arse? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yawn......... Is that the best you can do?
geo Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 My tuppence worth is that anyone feeling embarrassed by a mother feeding is the one with the problem - no matter where or when. I am in total agreement with the above statement Geo
Jay Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 Jay - I see where you're coming from but there are babies and children in adverts/on TV programmes/films etc all the time....is that wrong? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't personally see anything wrong seeing children/babies on TV, however, I question the merit, necessity and the appropriateness of showing a breastfeeding baby in order to promote election awareness.
Minnie Posted July 13, 2004 Author Posted July 13, 2004 Throughout your posts, your own embarassment with other womens nudity is prevalent. Yet, you say you are not embarassed? You say you are protecting your children from potential embarassment and discomfort and yet YOU are deciding for them that it is an embarassing situation - hence your statement that you would certainly have your children leave the room should a mother need to feed. This is YOUR embarassment not your childrens and any embarassment that they have now developed in such circumstances has been taught to them by you. You say you are not disgusted by it and yet also say that you would be disgusted at the suggestion of a mother feeding her child in front of your children. Throughout, you maintain that you are protecting your children from a POTENTIAL embarassment yet by removing them from the situation you have created exactly that - an embarassing situation. Your discomfort is with another woman's breast on display - you liken this natural act to the act of people fornicating in public?!?! EH?!?!? One is an act of nourishment and the other is an act of sexual fulfillment - hardly the same thing at all. It is your discomfort that is the issue, not the childrens. Children are born entirely free of hangups and know nothing of embarassment - these are things we teach them. It's all conditioning. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I am not embarrassed by other womens nudity, a woman's breast being on display or by breastfeeding. I do not shield my children from nudity or breastfeeding, I breastfed infront of my eldest boy and he knows it's nothing to be ashamed of. It's not the act of breastfeeding itself that would cause embarrassment, its the fact that a lady has her boobs on show, many children would feel embarrassed by that. I know my children and I know when they feel uneasy and embarrassed, I would take them out of a situation like that. No matter what you teach them, different children will be embarrassed by different things, some people have very shy children but that doesn't make them failure at parenting. I disagree that embarassment is something we teach our children. Embarassment, shyness etc is part of your personality. I DID NOT suggest in any way that breastfeeding was disgusting, I breastfed my own children, but if I was a breastfeeding mother in someone elses house I would consider their feelings and opinions and ask them if it was a problem if I breastfed in front of them or their children, I would therefore expect the same consideration and respect from a breastfeeding mother in my house. It is not that I find breastfeeding repulsive, I just believe that others concerns and feelings should be considered. I would not have a problem with a mother feeding her baby in my house, but if it's going to make my children uneasy I would do something to remedy that situation. I would not cause scene or offend the mother in any way, I would just try to find a happy balance, and if that means my children leaving the room to save their embarassment then so be it. Having sex is not just about sexual fulfilment, it's about creating new life, a natural act. My point was just because somethings natural doesn't make it acceptable to all. Speckled frost - thank you
Static Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 Speckled Frost stated: "Society has to function on norms and precedents. It's all about social relativism (in some societies cannabilism is acceptable). Rightly or wrongly nudity in public isn't deemed acceptable in Britain." (sorry but I don't know how to do the quotes thing!). Who deemed that nudity isn't acceptable in Britain? I know exactly where you are coming from here but if you look back over time you will find that it was a Male dominated Church that "decided" on what was okay and what wasn't. In societies where the religion is more female led (i.e. pagan religions who belive in mother goddesses) you will find that there are NO restrictions or hang-ups with nudity. Have a read of Ishtar Rising by robert Anton wilson for a funny look at taboos and ohter issues relating to Breasts. Also - what has nudity to do with breastfeeding? When a lady is breastfeeding there is no more nudity than when wearing a low-cut dress or a swimsuit (probably less actually). Minnie - (only singling you out because nearly every other post is from you) - if your children get embarrasssed by breastfeeding then they have picked up that "conditioning". Not getting at you personally but some of it (from reading your posts) will have come from you. Some of it will also have come from school and friends responses. As I said before - my 11 year old daughter is embarrassed by bare breasts and that didn't come from me. I have tried to get her to overcome that but hang-ups are not something people can overcome overnight.
Minnie Posted July 13, 2004 Author Posted July 13, 2004 " As I said before - my 11 year old daughter is embarrassed by bare breasts and that didn't come from me. I have tried to get her to overcome that but hang-ups are not something people can overcome overnight. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So where did it come from? Why is it such a problem for her to be embarrassed by bare breasts? That's neither a failure in her nor in your parenting skills, maybe that's just how your daughter is going to be? There will always be people in society who have have hang-ups, they shouldn't be seen as not the norm or be criticised, people should respect their views.
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