Israel vs. the rest of the world?

[Chinahand]

Language is challenging and I've likely phrased it badly. If tactic A results in X deaths of kids and tactic B results in Y deaths of kids. How would you describe the difference between X and Y?

It is a horrible subject. I hope I have made clear my huge despair and sadness about all of this. I'm just trying to use the data we have to understand what is going on. 

[Ghost Ship]

On 11/8/2024 at 6:27 PM, HeliX said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn5wel11pgdo

"Nearly 70% of Gaza war dead are women and children, UN says"

I'm interested that you are you concerned about the number of women killed when you obviously believe that women are not important enough to have women only sports restricted to err.... only women.

Why are these Gazan women different from women competing in sports?

 

Nb - I'm not suggesting an equivalence between defenceless women being slaughtered in Gaza and women being unfairly beaten by transwomen in women only sports, but I'm not sure why you think Gazan women are in some way diferent from sports women

[HeliX]

4 minutes ago, Ghost Ship said:

I'm interested that you are you concerned about the number of women killed when you obviously believe that women are not important enough to have women only sports restricted to err.... only women.

Why are these Gazan women different from women competing in sports?

 

Nb - I'm not suggesting an equivalence between defenceless women being slaughtered in Gaza and women being unfairly beaten by transwomen in women only sports, but I'm not sure why you think Gazan women are in some way diferent from sports women

I don't, I don't think Israel should indiscriminately slaughter sportswomen either.

[HeliX]

 

The Netherlands is Hamas.

[RecklessAbandon]

On 11/8/2024 at 6:36 PM, Chinahand said:

Selective blindness on multiple sides. 

Sounds a bit like Trump saying "there are good people on both side".

The Tel Aviv supporters went out to Amsterdam looking to kick off and got what they wanted, to appear the victims.

[Chinahand]

Ah, another person who can't read. 

Quite the opposite I've said there were clearly bad people on both sides. 

With social media making it impossible to know the true scale of the issues. 

[RecklessAbandon]

6 minutes ago, Chinahand said:

Ah, another person who can't read. 

Quite the opposite I've said there were clearly bad people on both sides. 

With social media making it impossible to know the true scale of the issues. 

However, as I said multiple times, Tel Aviv went there looking for a fight.  If they came out on top, bonus.

If they didn't, they get to invent a narrative about pogroms on the streets of Amsterdam, which the right wing will mould and signal boost for maximum affect.

[Chinahand]

Yeah cos every single fan who went to the match was an Ultra looking for trouble. 

What do you mean by Tel Aviv? You think this was a government operation?

A football club with a nasty Ultra wing (yes connected with right wing Israeli politics) played a football match. The Ultras are nasty, thuggishly chanting, vandalising and getting into fights. 

But they were a minority of the fans. 

Just like the violent Palestinian supporters who attacked any Maccabi fan Ultra or not is only a minority of Palestinian supporters. 

Neither extremist behaviour is acceptable. There is extremist behaviour on both sides and selective blindness to this is problematic. 

I think you have a problem, mate. 

 

[HeliX]

28 minutes ago, Chinahand said:

There is extremist behaviour on both sides and selective blindness to this is problematic. 

Such as the media reporting the violence between the two as "antisemitism".

[Chinahand]

The violence wasn't just between the two Ultra/extremist sides.  

Ordinary fans were attacked too. 

Why were they attacked?

 

[HeliX]

7 minutes ago, Chinahand said:

The violence wasn't just between the two Ultra/extremist sides.  

Ordinary fans were attacked too. 

Why were they attacked?

 

There were doubtlessly some people attacked due to antisemitism, but that's not what I was crticising the reporting of and I think you know that. The entire thing was labelled as antisemitism, particularly early on by the media, and often with no reference whatsoever to the blatant racism and hatred in the chants from the Tel Aviv ultras about "death to Arabs" and "Why is school out in Gaza? Because we killed all the children". Nor the ensuing violence which began from the Tel Aviv fans.

[RecklessAbandon]

47 minutes ago, Chinahand said:

What do you mean by Tel Aviv? You think this was a government operation?

Because the team is called Maccabi Tel Aviv.  Why did you automatically assume some ulterior motive?

Quote

I think you have a problem, mate. 

I'm not the one defending the narrative being spun by bad faith actors.

[RecklessAbandon]

16 minutes ago, Chinahand said:

The violence wasn't just between the two Ultra/extremist sides.  

Ordinary fans were attacked too. 

Why were they attacked?

Because the ultras were kicking off, on purpose, to provoke a reaction - knowing full well that the non-ultra fans were going to get sucked into any violence that started.

Again you're framing it as a "good people on both sides" argument.

Edited November 11, 2024 by RecklessAbandon

[Apple]

Apologies for interruption but how many hostages remain unaccounted for to date? I know some have been returned and some have died but there seems to be little information these days in the UK press about actual details. 

Is there any reason for this?

[HeliX]

1 hour ago, Apple said:

Apologies for interruption but how many hostages remain unaccounted for to date? I know some have been returned and some have died but there seems to be little information these days in the UK press about actual details. 

Is there any reason for this?

Because it was never about retrieving the hostages.