Liverpool FC..Has any team been so lucky ever.

[manxman1980]

6 hours ago, Passing Time said:

None that I can think of but that was not what was said 

I realise that which is why I was more specific.

I think Dutch managers in England have had limited success in Cup competitions.  Most have suffered damage to their reputations.

[Declan]

Spanish managers before Benítez? French before Wenger? Germans before Klopp? Portuguese before Mourinho?

I did kind of share your concern, but I think I was guilty of stereotype thinking. 

[manxman1980]

1 hour ago, Declan said:

Spanish managers before Benítez? French before Wenger? Germans before Klopp? Portuguese before Mourinho?

I did kind of share your concern, but I think I was guilty of stereotype thinking. 

So you think Slot is comparable to Wenger, Klopp or Mourinho?

I might accept Benitez as a comparison in that he will be popular with Liverpool fans but will not deliver anything beyond cup success.  Benitez has not been a success in England though as he took Everton backwards although I am sure Liverpool fans will see that as a "success".  

Wenger is an interesting case as well.  I think everyone recognises that he revived Arsenal and had some great teams, however, he won the Premier League 3 times and the FA Cup seven times.  Does that really qualify him as one of the best managers seen in the Premier League or even the English top flight before the Premier League?

If I was a Liverpool fan I would be genuinely concerned about how this season is finishing and whether your new manager will really be the success you all think.

[Passing Time]

21 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

So you think Slot is comparable to Wenger, Klopp or Mourinho?

I might accept Benitez as a comparison in that he will be popular with Liverpool fans but will not deliver anything beyond cup success.  Benitez has not been a success in England though as he took Everton backwards although I am sure Liverpool fans will see that as a "success".  

Wenger is an interesting case as well.  I think everyone recognises that he revived Arsenal and had some great teams, however, he won the Premier League 3 times and the FA Cup seven times.  Does that really qualify him as one of the best managers seen in the Premier League or even the English top flight before the Premier League?

If I was a Liverpool fan I would be genuinely concerned about how this season is finishing and whether your new manager will really be the success you all think.

as long as he's better than Ten Hag we should be fine...

[manxman1980]

25 minutes ago, Passing Time said:

as long as he's better than Ten Hag we should be fine...

Ten Hag had more success in the Netherlands as a manager than Slot.  Sure they managed different teams but why did Ajax not look at him?  Why did Chelsea and Tottenham both decided against Slot?

[Declan]

19 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

So you think Slot is comparable to Wenger, Klopp or Mourinho?

 

No, I'm saying we don't know whether he will be a success. But a Dutch manager could be successful in England, to think otherwise is stereotypical thinking. Somebody has to be the first one - it might be him.

Or maybe we should just employ a Scotsman. Look at their success -  Busby, Shankly, Dalglish, Graham, Ferguson (and 7 others). Yet Moyes and Souness weren't successes inheriting Champion teams that then went into decline. 

Anyway - it's not for a United fan to define how I feel about my team. I'm positive it'll be fine. We'll play attacking football. Win more than we lose. Be in the upper echolons of the league, have a run in a cup or Europe. Of course, we dream of more, but fans of most clubs would be happy with a season like. 

Look at it this way Chelsea fans always sing about Gerard falling over. Like that was such a crushing season. BUT my memory of that season is positive. We were miles behind at Christmas, went on crazy run, scoring loads despite a very limited defence, and somehow almost fluked the title. So when they sing about Gerard falling over I think of a fun season where we finished above them. 

So the current situation is - 

• We're better than we were last season
• We've seen young players get better this season
• We've seen younger players step up and hint at good careers to come
• We've won a cup and qualified for the Champions League
• But we're not as good as City or Arsenal
• Towards the end of the season our tactics have been found out and we're not creating enough good chances. It's a blip at an unfortunate moment. They'll find a solution. 
• The club infrastructure is fine - new training ground, increased capacity at Anfield
• Michael Edwards is back as Sporting Director - it's his recruitment that lead to Champions League and Premier Success and when he was away our recruitment became a weaker point (eg not refreshing the midfield earlier).
• The owners and sporting directors have  a clear vision for the club. 
• Everything that Jim Radcliffe has identified as needed at Utd is in place at Liverpool. It seems to me that United fans should be excited about the direction he's taking their club. So why shouldn't Liverpool fans be positive?

Obviously, I'd prefer that Klopp was staying and I don't know enough about Slot to be excited by his appointment. But there are enough positives and I've been supporting the team long enough not to be gloom and doom. 

 

 

[Declan]

1 hour ago, Passing Time said:

as long as he's better than Ten Hag we should be fine...

Ten Hag isn't the problem at United.

 

[Mr. Sausages]

6 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

 

Wenger is an interesting case as well.  I think everyone recognises that he revived Arsenal and had some great teams, however, he won the Premier League 3 times and the FA Cup seven times.  Does that really qualify him as one of the best managers seen in the Premier League or even the English top flight before the Premier League?

 

In the Premier league era there’s only Ferguson and Guardiola with more titles. All time there’s only 7 others ahead of him. 

[Passing Time]

7 hours ago, Declan said:

No, I'm saying we don't know whether he will be a success. But a Dutch manager could be successful in England, to think otherwise is stereotypical thinking. Somebody has to be the first one - it might be him.

Or maybe we should just employ a Scotsman. Look at their success -  Busby, Shankly, Dalglish, Graham, Ferguson (and 7 others). Yet Moyes and Souness weren't successes inheriting Champion teams that then went into decline. 

Anyway - it's not for a United fan to define how I feel about my team. I'm positive it'll be fine. We'll play attacking football. Win more than we lose. Be in the upper echolons of the league, have a run in a cup or Europe. Of course, we dream of more, but fans of most clubs would be happy with a season like. 

Look at it this way Chelsea fans always sing about Gerard falling over. Like that was such a crushing season. BUT my memory of that season is positive. We were miles behind at Christmas, went on crazy run, scoring loads despite a very limited defence, and somehow almost fluked the title. So when they sing about Gerard falling over I think of a fun season where we finished above them. 

So the current situation is - 

• We're better than we were last season
• We've seen young players get better this season
• We've seen younger players step up and hint at good careers to come
• We've won a cup and qualified for the Champions League
• But we 're not as good don't has as much money as City or and we are better than Arsenal
• Towards the end of the season our tactics have been found out and we're not creating enough good chances. It's a blip at an unfortunate moment. They'll find a solution. 
• The club infrastructure is fine - new training ground, increased capacity at Anfield
• Michael Edwards is back as Sporting Director - it's his recruitment that lead to Champions League and Premier Success and when he was away our recruitment became a weaker point (eg not refreshing the midfield earlier).
• The owners and sporting directors have  a clear vision for the club. 
• Everything that Jim Radcliffe has identified as needed at Utd is in place at Liverpool. It seems to me that United fans should be excited about the direction he's taking their club. So why shouldn't Liverpool fans be positive?

Obviously, I'd prefer that Klopp was staying and I don't know enough about Slot to be excited by his appointment. But there are enough positives and I've been supporting the team long enough not to be gloom and doom. 

 

 

Fixed

[manxman1980]

9 hours ago, Passing Time said:

Fixed

How are you better than a team who has been above you for the majority of the last two seasons?

The league would suggest that over a season Arsenal are a better team.

[Declan]

5 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

How are you better than a team who has been above you for the majority of the last two seasons?

The league would suggest that over a season Arsenal are a better team.

I agree, a point or two at the end of the season can be down to good or bad fortune, but we were well behind last season. We've closed the gap this season, and I see it as plus point that we kept the challenge alive going into April. But even before the current blip, they were winning by two or three goals and we were coming from behind to win.

[manxman1980]

1 hour ago, Declan said:

I agree, a point or two at the end of the season can be down to good or bad fortune, but we were well behind last season. We've closed the gap this season, and I see it as plus point that we kept the challenge alive going into April. But even before the current blip, they were winning by two or three goals and we were coming from behind to win.

Wow!  A Liverpool fan with some sense! 🤣

[Passing Time]

2 hours ago, Declan said:

I agree, a point or two at the end of the season can be down to good or bad fortune, but we were well behind last season. We've closed the gap this season, and I see it as plus point that we kept the challenge alive going into April. But even before the current blip, they were winning by two or three goals and we were coming from behind to win.

So resilience and never say die mean nothing to you. Shankly's teams used to play to the 95th minute and won a lot of their games playing that way.

[Passing Time]

7 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

How are you better than a team who has been above you for the majority of the last two seasons?

The league would suggest that over a season Arsenal are a better team.

Arsenal has won 13 league titles (including one unbeaten title), a record 14 FA Cups, two League Cups, 17 FA Community Shields and a Football League Centenary Trophy

Liverpool have won 1 FIFA Club World Cup title, 6 European Cups (an English club record), 4 UEFA Super Cups, 3 UEFA Cups , 19 League titles (including 1 Premier League title), 7 Men's FA Cups, a record 10 EFL Cups and 16 FA Community Shields

Anything to add?

[manxman1980]

18 minutes ago, Passing Time said:

Arsenal has won 13 league titles (including one unbeaten title), a record 14 FA Cups, two League Cups, 17 FA Community Shields and a Football League Centenary Trophy

Liverpool have won 1 FIFA Club World Cup title, 6 European Cups (an English club record), 4 UEFA Super Cups, 3 UEFA Cups , 19 League titles (including 1 Premier League title), 7 Men's FA Cups, a record 10 EFL Cups and 16 FA Community Shields

Anything to add?

And there we have it...  a return to normal service from a Liverpool fan.  Quoting history instead of paying attention to what is happening today.  

Arsenal finished above Liverpool last season and could end this season as League Champions.  Even if they finish second they will once again be above Liverpool in the table making them the better team currently.