Le Tour

[manxman1980]

13 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

You are confusing motor transport with motor racing.

In motor racing, for example F1, has a manufacturer's championship , Mclaren v Mercedes etc which is as almost as much an integral part of the sport as the drivers championship ( Hamilton v Verstappen etc)

It is not that simple though because not all F1 team's are manufacturer's.  Some are 'customers' and buy their engines from other teams plus it is the Constructors Championship not the manufacturer's championship.    You also picked a really poor comparison as McLaren is really McLaren Mercedes as they currently use Mercedes Benz engines.  Whilst Mercedes may not provide the same engines to both teams the key difference is the chassis of the car.

13 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

I may be wrong but in cycle racing you don’t have such a thing as say, Raleigh v whoever

Once again proving you are not the "purist" you claimed to be!

[The Voice of Reason]

19 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

It is not that simple though because not all F1 team's are manufacturer's.  Some are 'customers' and buy their engines from other teams plus it is the Constructors Championship not the manufacturer's championship.    You also picked a really poor comparison as McLaren is really McLaren Mercedes as they currently use Mercedes Benz engines.  Whilst Mercedes may not provide the same engines to both teams the key difference is the chassis of the car.

Once again proving you are not the "purist" you claimed to be!

My purism is more general than specific to the world of cycling , about which I admit to knowing very little ( I find it boring).

I’m also not a big fan of F1 for the same reason which led me to what you say is a poor comparison.

But the use of artificial aids (however small) over natural human endeavour ,or skill, can’t be a good thing can it? Slippery slope, thin end of the wedge etc etc

 

[quilp]

4 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

... the use of artificial aids (however small) over natural human endeavour ,or skill, can’t be a good thing can it? Slippery slope, thin end of the wedge etc etc...

 

[manxman1980]

18 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

My purism is more general than specific to the world of cycling , about which I admit to knowing very little ( I find it boring).

I’m also not a big fan of F1 for the same reason which led me to what you say is a poor comparison.

But the use of artificial aids (however small) over natural human endeavour ,or skill, can’t be a good thing can it? Slippery slope, thin end of the wedge etc etc

 

So basically you are spouting opinions about topics which you know very little about.  I suppose I should not be surprised given your posting history and the fact that it is the internet.

I am intrigued though, if you feel the use of "artificial aids over natural human endeavour or skill can't be a good thing", then why do you use artificial aids in your day to day life?  Don't deny that you do because otherwise you would not be able to post here at all. Surely by doing so, by your own opinions, you must not have much endeavour or skills. 🙂

[Meoir Shee]

7 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

But the use of artificial aids (however small) over natural human endeavour ,or skill, can’t be a good thing can it? Slippery slope, thin end of the wedge etc etc

 

I’ve looked a little further into this.  Not only are cyclists now allowed electronic gears to make shifting more crisp and accurate, they are also allowed disc brakes rather than rim brakes.  These artificial aids, available for years on cars, motorbikes and mountain bikes, allow riders to reach incredible speeds downhill, as a purist I’d prefer no brakes at all so those with the best human endeavour or skill will be rewarded the most.

It gets worse, over the past few weeks I’ve had the displeasure of catching the The Ashes.  I was staggered that not only were the players wearing helmets but also pads and gloves.  Why on Earth do players at the very highest level require the use of artificial aids (however small) over natural human endeavour ,or skill, can’t be a good thing can it?  Surely, they have a bat to hit the ball with?  As a purist, I always preferred the old days.

 

[John Wright]

8 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

But the use of artificial aids (however small) over natural human endeavour ,or skill, can’t be a good thing can it? Slippery slope, thin end of the wedge etc etc

So, no rubber or inflatable tyres, no chain of gears of any kind, no Lycra, just wool. Are pedals ok? As long as they’re attached to the front axle? Or perhaps just a wooden hobby?

[La Colombe]

Fuck off out of this ex nice thread you boring irrelevant cunts. 

[The Voice of Reason]

10 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

So basically you are spouting opinions about topics which you know very little about.  🙂

Absolutely.

Having been a member of this forum for sixteen years or so , I thought this to be the norm

Edited July 17, 2023 by The Voice of Reason
Just tidying up grammar

[Albert Tatlock]

2 minutes ago, La Colombe said:

Fuck off out of this ex nice thread you boring irrelevant cunts. 

If you're going to use the 'C' word...at least get it right...it's 'Cyclists'.

[The Voice of Reason]

10 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

 

I am intrigued though, if you feel the use of "artificial aids over natural human endeavour or skill can't be a good thing", then why do you use artificial aids in your day to day life?  Don't deny that you do because otherwise you would not be able to post here at all. Surely by doing so, by your own opinions, you must not have much endeavour or skills. 🙂

You’ve not really grasped the difference between day to day life and sporting activity.

Back in the days of yore horses pulled ploughing implements etc and to help with the farming activities. Technology came on and said horses were replaced by mechanical means.

I know you get the odd combine harvester or tractor competition, but you wouldn’t go to Aintree, Newmarket etc en masse to watch these because horses have had their day. Or would you?

[manxman1980]

2 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

I know you get the odd combine harvester or tractor competition, but you wouldn’t go to Aintree, Newmarket etc en masse to watch these because horses have had their day. Or would you?

No, I would go to Aintree and Newmarket to watch horse racing (if I didn't have an ethical issue with it).  I have been to see ploughing matches using vintage machinery and horses on the Island though as well as threshing machines.  What is your point? 

You clearly know very little about professional cycling and as others have pointed out technological advancements are used in virtually every sport going.

Even the Jockeys at Aintree etc probably wear lighter l, more aerodynamic clothing than their counterparts in the past.  The horses are probably even fed using modern sciences understanding of nutrition. 

Professional Cycling had more of an issue with doping than it does with the introduction of technology.  Doping is 100% cheating.

[The Phantom]

11 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Back in the days of yore horses pulled ploughing implements etc and to help with the farming activities. Technology came on and said horses were replaced by mechanical means.

You missed the memo about the Horse Trams then? 

[Meoir Shee]

Back to the topic in question, what an incredible performance by Vin in today’s TT.  That could well be the greatest time trial performance in Tour history.

[La Colombe]

13 hours ago, Meoir Shee said:

Back to the topic in question, what an incredible performance by Vin in today’s TT.  That could well be the greatest time trial performance in Tour history.

Indeed. There seems to be a lot of suspicion that it's too good a performance to be true. 

[Passing Time]

4 hours ago, La Colombe said:

Indeed. There seems to be a lot of suspicion that it's too good a performance to be true. 

Suspicion on here doesn't count...