Brexit Penny Dropping?

[woolley]

1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Sometimes the easiest and cheapest options ( as you claim) are not always the right options. There are many more factors to consider.

I am afraid your view is somewhat simplistic.

Of course. These people never look at the whole circle. Just a narrow arc that seems expedient to them.

[P.K.]

Good laugh this! At least for me...

The brexiteers reduced to trying to claim that there's "a bigger picture" that only they can see!

I can see a bigger picture too.

It consists of lies, paranoia, gullibility, stupidity and our old friend racism.

Have to say that among the record number of migrants coming to these shores (HA!) there's still no sign of the 12 million Turks that we were promised by the UK right wing press in thrall to the agenda of the owner. Which is to say pretty much all of it...

[woolley]

2 hours ago, P.K. said:

@woolley

Not exactly "news" though is it?

Says you? Seriously?

[woolley]

1 hour ago, P.K. said:

Good laugh this! At least for me...

The brexiteers reduced to trying to claim that there's "a bigger picture" that only they can see!

Absolutely. You're thoroughly blinkered when it comes to the EU, and it comes out in every post you ever made.

[P.K.]

2 hours ago, woolley said:

Absolutely. You're thoroughly blinkered when it comes to the EU, and it comes out in every post you ever made.

What a laughable accusation. Who can forget the "wine lakes" of the 1980's?

Clearly desperate times for the brexiteers @woolley , desperate times...

Also it says nothing good about our institutions when the Governor of the Bank of England has to virtually apologise in advance for criticising the totally stupid and completely unnecessary brexit when stating what we've all known for years to wit “I do have to point out consequences.”

Yes you do...

[woolley]

1 hour ago, P.K. said:

Clearly desperate times for the brexiteers @woolley , desperate times...

Clearly not, because we're out of the EU. Rejoice! Enjoy! You're a long time dead.

[P.K.]

14 minutes ago, woolley said:

Clearly not, because we're out of the EU. Rejoice! Enjoy! You're a long time dead.

If you can't see it was a retrograde step then you're dead to reality...

[The Voice of Reason]

6 hours ago, P.K. said:

Good laugh this! At least for me...

The brexiteers reduced to trying to claim that there's "a bigger picture" that only they can see!

I can see a bigger picture too.

It consists of lies, paranoia, gullibility, stupidity and our old friend racism.

Yet again you insult those who listened to the arguments and came to their own conclusion as to which way they wanted to vote.( Seemingly because they came to a different conclusion that you did. It’s called democracy, get over it)

And again you claim that Brexit was driven by racism. Have you really no shame?
 

 

[Lost Login]

2 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

And again you claim that Brexit was driven by racism. Have you really no shame?
 

Obviously it was not for all but a level of bigotry and xenophobia was a driver.

Ultimately the UK left the EU and the result of the Brexit election should be accepted. That does not mean at some point in the future it can not be revisited. Just as if the vote had been to remain it would not have meant at some future point it could be revisited. Rejoining in my lifetime I view as extremely unlikely and rejoining would be under worse terms that the UK was subject to when the UK left.

What it is wrong to say, in my opinion, is that the Brexit was anything except a vote about leaving the EU. There was no vote on what would come next and indeed, there was no consensus put before the voters as to what the relationship etc with the EU would be if the UK voted to leave. Essentially what the relationship would be with the EU post Brexit was left as a massive void which has yet to be filled as the options have never been put before the UK electorate. Therefore a remainer is as justified in arguing that post Brexit the UK should sign up to the single market, as a leaver is in arguing that for complete divergence. 

[Lost Login]

1 hour ago, woolley said:

Clearly not, because we're out of the EU. Rejoice! Enjoy! You're a long time dead.

I always wonder how riddled with bigotry and xenophobia somebody must be just to simply rejoice that the UK is out of the EU.

I expect like me that most are more bothered either way until it actually potentially affects them directly, e.g. economically, travelling etc. Day to day whether in or out it does not noticeably affect most of us directly. Tomorrow would feel roughly the same in or out. Same as if I lived in Wales and they changed the counties back. On a day to day basis would being in say Denbighshire rather than Clwyd have a noticeable affect on me day to day. Not really.

I have lived in England, Wales and the Isle of Man. I might be proud to say I am European, British, English/Welsh/Manx but the relationship between them I am not really bothered about as long as I get on with my life and it is pretty unaffected.  They are just names of areas of the world where I have lived and I would be happy to live in many other areas of the world.

[The Voice of Reason]

24 minutes ago, Lost Login said:

Obviously it was not for all but a level of bigotry and xenophobia was a driver.

Ultimately the UK left the EU and the result of the Brexit election should be accepted. That does not mean at some point in the future it can not be revisited. Just as if the vote had been to remain it would not have meant at some future point it could be revisited. Rejoining in my lifetime I view as extremely unlikely and rejoining would be under worse terms that the UK was subject to when the UK left.

What it is wrong to say, in my opinion, is that the Brexit was anything except a vote about leaving the EU. There was no vote on what would come next and indeed, there was no consensus put before the voters as to what the relationship etc with the EU would be if the UK voted to leave. Essentially what the relationship would be with the EU post Brexit was left as a massive void which has yet to be filled as the options have never been put before the UK electorate. Therefore a remainer is as justified in arguing that post Brexit the UK should sign up to the single market, as a leaver is in arguing that for complete divergence. 

Brexit had to be a vote about leaving the EU or staying in. You couldn’t have an infinite number of options on the ballot (?) paper about what should happen if we were to leave. Those details, by necessity, would have to be ironed out if and when there was a leave vote, which there was.

I hope to God that the UK would never rejoin the EU in its current format. But if it were to do so I believe it wouldn’t be on worse terms. The UK made its position clear on “ ever closer union” etc . And hopefully the EU listened, the Brexit vote came as a bit of a shock to them. That should be leverage were the UK ever to rejoin

But I certainly agree with your final sentence.

[The Voice of Reason]

18 minutes ago, Lost Login said:

I always wonder how riddled with bigotry and xenophobia somebody must be just to simply rejoice that the UK is out of the EU.

 

I’m not riddled with bigotry and xenophobia but I rejoice that the UK is out of the EU.

I am really not sure why you say that.

It’s like saying to someone who is happy that they have just got divorced, because they were in an unhappy relationship that they are misogynistic 

Edited November 17, 2024 by The Voice of Reason
Adding the unhappy relationship bit

[Lost Login]

5 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Brexit had to be a vote about leaving the EU or staying in.

It did, but there was no agreement as to what would come after so you are left with the subsequent all mighty squabble. 

Having voted to leave there should have been a subsequent referendum to enable the public to vote as what was their preferred arrangement. The prominent Brexit supporters did not want that as they argued it was rerunning the referendum. It was not. It was simply to get some sort of consensus as to the preferred relationship going forward. 

The reason that prominent Brexit supporters did not want was pretty obvious. They wanted a "hard" Brexit and they were concerned that the public might prefer reasonably close relationship with the EU whilst being outside it. People like Farage appear to only be in favour of democracy when it gives the results they want.  

[Lost Login]

10 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

I’m not riddled with bigotry and xenophobia but I rejoice that the UK is out of the EU.

I am really not sure why you say that.

The most was replying to Woolley but the answer to why I say that, is quite simple. I read your posts.

[manxman1980]

11 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

But if it were to do so I believe it wouldn’t be on worse terms. The UK made its position clear on “ ever closer union” etc . And hopefully the EU listened, the Brexit vote came as a bit of a shock to them. That should be leverage were the UK ever to rejoin

Care to explain why you think the UK would get equivalent terms?

I think rejoining would come with a lot worse terms than the UK previously enjoyed.