Brexit Penny Dropping?

[woolley]

10 minutes ago, RecklessAbandon said:

After a very quick and certainly not that comprehensive search on the interwebs, I can't find any source that says categorically that Corbyn did in fact vote to leave.

There are opinion pieces as to others having theories about how he voted, but nothing categorically stating either way.

Yes he was a Eurosceptic at times, but his opinions regarding Brexit changed often:

FactCheck: Corbyn’s changing Brexit stance – Channel 4 News

I'm with @manxman1980 on Corbyn. He was certainly no Europhile, although he made ambiguous noises as required by events.

From the C4 article you linked, perhaps this does the job better: Meanwhile union bosses — who between them hold 50 per cent of voting rights at conference — have spent the summer attempting to block moves from the shadow cabinet to back a remain stance.

Presumably we can agree that "union bosses" are left wing?

 

[RecklessAbandon]

10 minutes ago, woolley said:

I'm with @manxman1980 on Corbyn. He was certainly no Europhile, although he made ambiguous noises as required by events.

From the C4 article you linked, perhaps this does the job better: Meanwhile union bosses — who between them hold 50 per cent of voting rights at conference — have spent the summer attempting to block moves from the shadow cabinet to back a remain stance.

Presumably we can agree that "union bosses" are left wing?

No, presumably we can't.  

[woolley]

1 hour ago, RecklessAbandon said:

No, presumably we can't.  

Thus succinctly validating my point that left/right stereotypes are frequently bogus. Fun this, isn't it?

[RecklessAbandon]

7 minutes ago, woolley said:

Thus succinctly validating my point that left/right stereotypes are frequently bogus. Fun this, isn't it?

I'm still waiting for that list of prominent left leaning MPs that voted for Leave.

[woolley]

3 minutes ago, RecklessAbandon said:

I'm still waiting for that list of prominent left leaning MPs that voted for Leave.

I'm not doing your research for you. Already you put up a link that says union bosses were in favour of Brexit and fighting the Labour shadow cabinet who were scandalously trying to stand in the way. Betcha didn't even know that.

[RecklessAbandon]

9 minutes ago, woolley said:

I'm not doing your research for you.

Or is it more likely that you can't because no-one in a prominent left leaning political position would vote for such an act of self harm?

If there was any, Leavers would be holding them up as some sort of magical shield against the general consensus that Brexit had a lot of right wing bias (and lies) behind it.  

But there aren't, so they can't.

[woolley]

10 minutes ago, RecklessAbandon said:

Or is it more likely that you can't because no-one in a prominent left leaning political position would vote for such an act of self harm?

If there was any, Leavers would be holding them up as some sort of magical shield against the general consensus that Brexit had a lot of right wing bias (and lies) behind it.  

But there aren't, so they can't.

Union bosses would surely fit the bill if some sort of magical shield were needed, but as it isn't needed it doesn't happen. All is well, so it isn't a thing. People have moved on. Life goes on.

Trade unions RMT and ASLEF, urged members to vote for Brexit. Dennis Skinner, Graham Stringer and Kate Hoey come to mind as staunch traditional Labour Brexiteers.

[RecklessAbandon]

2 minutes ago, woolley said:

Union bosses would surely fit the bill if some sort of magical shield were needed, but as it isn't needed it doesn't happen. All is well, so it isn't a thing. People have moved on. Life goes on.

Trade unions RMT and ASLEF, urged members to vote for Brexit. Dennis Skinner, Graham Stringer and Kate Hoey come to mind as staunch traditional Labour Brexiteers.

Again, you are conflating Labour = Left.

This is a falsehood.  Yes they are "left" of the Tories, but I am talking actual lefties, not red tie Tories.

[woolley]

5 minutes ago, RecklessAbandon said:

Again, you are conflating Labour = Left.

This is a falsehood.  Yes they are "left" of the Tories, but I am talking actual lefties, not red tie Tories.

Mick Lynch? Dennis Skinner? Red tie Tories? You're funny.

[Jarndyce]

1 hour ago, woolley said:

Fun this, isn't it?

No.

[The Voice of Reason]

38 minutes ago, RecklessAbandon said:

Again, you are conflating Labour = Left.

This is a falsehood.  Yes they are "left" of the Tories, but I am talking actual lefties, not red tie Tories.

Arthur Scargill was for Brexit.

But I bet even he isn’t a leftie for the purposes of your peculiar argument. 

[manxman1980]

1 hour ago, RecklessAbandon said:

I'm still waiting for that list of prominent left leaning MPs that voted for Leave.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Leave#:~:text=The group was led by,Kelvin Hopkins%2C and Roger Godsiff.

There is a start.  Brexit really wasn't a left/right issue.  Although as has been argued before those xenophobic and anti-immigration views likely voted in favour of leaving the EU.

Those on the left are not always exempt from such views nor are they always inclined to make sensible decisions.

[woolley]

32 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

Those on the left are not always exempt from such views nor are they always inclined to make sensible decisions.

It amuses me how people with superficial views on subjects of great complexity can be so conceited as to believe passionately that those who disagree with them are not sensible.

[Lost Login]

11 hours ago, woolley said:

It amuses me how people with superficial views on subjects of great complexity can be so conceited as to believe passionately that those who disagree with them are not sensible.

You must keep yourself in permanent rapture then.

[Jarndyce]

14 hours ago, woolley said:

It amuses me how people with superficial views on subjects of great complexity can be so conceited as to believe passionately that those who disagree with them are not sensible.

Every so often, I pop back to this thread - to see the great minds of MF debating and working through one of the bigger issues of the past decade or two…

…and here we are…gives you hope, really…