The Voice of Reason Posted November 1 Posted November 1 26 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: That's a Home Office tweet and not a quote from the Home Secretary. It also doesn't appear to identify any individual but as I am not on Twitter/X I can't tell. Would you feel the same if it said "related to terrorist events" or "related to sexual offences"? (Obviously with different imagery) The "full force of the law" could also simply mean being charged and standing trial. Well you wouldn’t want criminals to face half the force of the law ( or less) would you? Quote
manxman1980 Posted November 1 Posted November 1 32 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: Well you wouldn’t want criminals to face half the force of the law ( or less) would you? I think the objection is the tweet labels them criminals before trial (although I am not clear on the time frame). Quote
hoopsaa Posted November 1 Posted November 1 (edited) 1 hour ago, manxman1980 said: That's a Home Office tweet and not a quote from the Home Secretary. It also doesn't appear to identify any individual but as I am not on Twitter/X I can't tell. Would you feel the same if it said "related to terrorist events" or "related to sexual offences"? (Obviously with different imagery) The "full force of the law" could also simply mean being charged and standing trial. It calls those arrested criminals, when they hadn't been found guilty of a crime. I thought you were against that sort of thing? Edited November 1 by hoopsaa Quote
hoopsaa Posted November 1 Posted November 1 13 hours ago, manxman1980 said: You seem to be very much against allowing due process and a full and fair trial taking place. Quote
P.K. Posted November 1 Posted November 1 26 minutes ago, hoopsaa said: It calls those arrested criminals, when they hadn't been found guilty of a crime. I thought you were against that sort of thing? You're just playing with semantics for whatever stupid reason. I mean, do you really think the Home Secretary calling a load of rioters trying to set alight to a hostel full of asylum seekers "criminals" is in some way going to prejudice their trial? Especially as they will almost certainly plead guilty. You need to get real... Quote
hoopsaa Posted November 1 Posted November 1 29 minutes ago, P.K. said: You're just playing with semantics for whatever stupid reason. I mean, do you really think the Home Secretary calling a load of rioters trying to set alight to a hostel full of asylum seekers "criminals" is in some way going to prejudice their trial? Especially as they will almost certainly plead guilty. You need to get real... Fuck me. I got pulled up for not adhering to the 'presumption of innocence' of the bloke caught literally red-handed at the awful scene in Stockport. I've pointed out that the Home Office did not hold with the presumption of innocence for those arrested of rioting, and that that, for whatever reason, didn't, and doesn't, reading this forum, seem to be a problem. I wasn't defending those arrested for rioting, I was calling out double standards. But I'm wasting my time, you still won't get it. Laters. Quote
manxman1980 Posted November 1 Posted November 1 14 minutes ago, hoopsaa said: Fuck me. I got pulled up for not adhering to the 'presumption of innocence' of the bloke caught literally red-handed at the awful scene in Stockport. I've pointed out that the Home Office did not hold with the presumption of innocence for those arrested of rioting, and that that, for whatever reason, didn't, and doesn't, reading this forum, seem to be a problem. I wasn't defending those arrested for rioting, I was calling out double standards. But I'm wasting my time, you still won't get it. Laters. The issue I have is that you and Shake Me Up Judy reacted in a very specific way to a post I made. That response and your subsequent posts indicate a desire to believe this is an immigration issue and linked strongly to Islamic Jihadism. I am merely trying to open your eyes to the real evidence in this case and trying to get you to understand the legal process. Otherwise you fall into the world of conspiracy theories. You also said Stockport. The suspect escaped the scene in Southport but I don't think he was found in Stockport. Quote
hoopsaa Posted November 2 Posted November 2 48 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: The issue I have is that you and Shake Me Up Judy reacted in a very specific way to a post I made. That response and your subsequent posts indicate a desire to believe this is an immigration issue and linked strongly to Islamic Jihadism. I am merely trying to open your eyes to the real evidence in this case and trying to get you to understand the legal process. Otherwise you fall into the world of conspiracy theories. You also said Stockport. The suspect escaped the scene in Southport but I don't think he was found in Stockport. OK, Stockport was a mistake, I meant Southport. In an earlier post I described the perpetrator as British, so while you may want to believe I'm making this an issue about immigration, I'm not. I know these days humans aren't supposed to do what humans have always done - maybe not so much in tyrannies - and speculate, but we do. So add a random mass stabbing, literature about Islamic terrorism, ricin, and the correlation to recent events in Britain and Europe.... A small thing, you've mentioned that the accused came from a Christian family. So did drummer Lee Rigby's killers. Quote
manxman1980 Posted November 2 Posted November 2 8 hours ago, hoopsaa said: I know these days humans aren't supposed to do what humans have always done - maybe not so much in tyrannies - and speculate, but we do. So add a random mass stabbing, literature about Islamic terrorism, ricin, and the correlation to recent events in Britain and Europe.... Just stick to the facts of the case and that will be fine. I think it's a human trait but why correlate this to any other event in Britain or Europe? There is limited evidence available to form any link. It may come out at trial but for now you are jumping to conclusions. 8 hours ago, hoopsaa said: A small thing, you've mentioned that the accused came from a Christian family. So did drummer Lee Rigby's killers. Sounds a little like confirmation bias to me. Quote
hoopsaa Posted November 2 Posted November 2 5 hours ago, manxman1980 said: Just stick to the facts of the case and that will be fine. I think it's a human trait but why correlate this to any other event in Britain or Europe? There is limited evidence available to form any link. It may come out at trial but for now you are jumping to conclusions. Sounds a little like confirmation bias to me. A number of posters have speculated - which isn't jumping to a conclusion - that the man may have mental health issues. Isn't that an issue, confirming the ableism inherent in the system? Quote
Albert Tatlock Posted November 2 Posted November 2 4 minutes ago, hoopsaa said: A number of posters have speculated - which isn't jumping to a conclusion - that the man may have mental health issues. I think that's probably the understatement of the year. Quote
Shake me up Judy Posted November 2 Author Posted November 2 It's another cover-up, just like the grooming gangs, and people who knew have gone to jail. Mental illness my ass. How did he get the Ricin ? Quote
John Wright Posted November 2 Posted November 2 4 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said: It's another cover-up, just like the grooming gangs, and people who knew have gone to jail. Mental illness my ass. How did he get the Ricin? Made it in the kitchen or in his bedroom. Ricin is occurs naturally in castor beans, and can be extracted from the pulp left over after the castor oil has been squeezed out. The general procedure involves removing or softening the outer coat of the castor beans (some recipes suggest soaking them) and cooking the beans. Next, the beans are mashed and filtered. Then solvents are added to extract the ricin from the solution … and, Bobs your uncle. So he needed a press, a hob, something to mash ( food processor ) and solvent. Quote
hoopsaa Posted November 2 Posted November 2 29 minutes ago, John Wright said: Made it in the kitchen or in his bedroom. Ricin is occurs naturally in castor beans, and can be extracted from the pulp left over after the castor oil has been squeezed out. The general procedure involves removing or softening the outer coat of the castor beans (some recipes suggest soaking them) and cooking the beans. Next, the beans are mashed and filtered. Then solvents are added to extract the ricin from the solution … and, Bobs your uncle. So he needed a press, a hob, something to mash ( food processor ) and solvent. The plant you get the seeds from is quite regularly used as an impact plant in annual bedding schemes. Quote
hoopsaa Posted November 2 Posted November 2 (edited) 3 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said: I think that's probably the understatement of the year. Why just quote part of the statement then? Disingenuous. My point being, it's all speculation. Do you have to have mental health issues to commit an act of terrorism? I'd like to think so. Doesn't absolve the perpetrator of blame, though Edited November 2 by hoopsaa Quote
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