Armed Police - Casually strolling

[Tinpot]

Chief constable currently on the Manninline if anyone who thinks this is a bad thing wants to ask any questions.

[Tinpot]

5 minutes ago, Tinpot said:

Chief constable currently on the Manninline if anyone who thinks this is a bad thing wants to ask any questions.

There you go

“Roger” has asked the question about police in Costa with guns and CC has answered it in detail.

Listen again at 12:15

 

[Steve_Christian]

I think he spoke well and justified armed police in the community to reduce the previous 48 minute response time. If someone I knew was threatened or there was a requirement for armed response I’d be happy that the response time was shorter. Of course the majority in here won’t agree. But that’s hardly unusual. As they say in the Navy, Jack is only happy when he’s dripping. 

[daisy]

12 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

Low crime doesn't equate to 'it won't happen here'. A degree of preparedness is necessary for the 'what if's'. 

Because if 'it' happens MF is gonna need more server capacity judging on this thread.

The issue at present is that these instances are approached by the IOPC from a criminal perspective rather than an 'incident at work' (HSE) perspective. Adverse outcomes occur in all high risk industries. Surgery is a good example. People die on the table regularly but it's rare that a criminal investigation is opened.

 

Very few get through. Marksmanship is a small part. Tactical ability and mindset are more important.

The concern is there are fewer applicants than ever now. Adjoining counties are now reluctant to support MPS shortfalls too. This may require military support at some point.

It's either lower the standard, or that. 

Agree that we need to be prepared. Having armed officers available - absolutely.  I'm not sure of the protocol - but if the Officers are in Costa getting their Macchiato and the balloon goes up - presumably Gold Command etc would have to scramble, assess and review, grade and brief the situation before a PC would enter a potential scene guns akimbo? So is there really that much of a time saving?  Armed officers were on duty/call anyway? Additional firearms officers require additional funding and ongoing training.  Officers strolling the streets armed seems more posturing than actual need.  Unless there is a real  and present risk we need to be mindful that the perception of the Isle of Man being safe and a good place to bring your family to live is being compromised. Armed cops and dogs at the ports - yeah but random wandering for lunch and coffee not so much.  I would rather not see CC Foster downgrade the Isle of Mann to a UK suburb because that's the only Policing he knows.

[Two-lane]

1 hour ago, Steve_Christian said:

I think he spoke well and justified armed police in the community to reduce the previous 48 minute response time. If someone I knew was threatened or there was a requirement for armed response I’d be happy that the response time was shorter.

The 48 minute delay is quoted frequently, but there has been no explanation of it. The Fire and Ambulance services can (I hope) beat that. The 48 minutes quoted is said to be the average time. I would expect a maximum time to be the most critical parameter. (And ask a statistician what "average" means).

Because a fast response time is required, there has been no explanation of why the officers cannot keep their pistol locked on a compartment in the boot of their car - along with the assault rifle, bullet-proof jacket, kevlar helmet, stun grenades. But the police person does mention later in the interview that they carry a first-aid kit

https://www.manxradio.com/radioplayer/?rpOdId=477ca719dd6eae46e93ce5e849293e24948e06b21c215275645d6388f65353b7&rpSt=1003&rpSrp=index

@~ 17:40 "those officers are trained to a very high standard  a clear discipline around the deployment of armed officers"

I refer you to the Pulrose Incident video.

Also at around 17:40 are references to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plymouth_shooting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Northumbria_Police_manhunt

These events are used to justify the police here carrying guns at all times. Presumably the local police in Budleigh Salterton and Upper Piddle also carry guns - but do they also think it necessary?

If you were threatened by someone of the type mentioned in the above links, you would be shot irrespective of whether or not a police officer in a nearby coffee shop was carrying a gun - because there would be no threat, just an action.

If you were threatened - i.e. a hostage situation, which would you choose to respond:

1. A trained hostage negotiator

2. The Pulrose SWAT team

 

 

[Tinpot]

3 minutes ago, daisy said:

Agree that we need to be prepared. Having armed officers available - absolutely.  I'm not sure of the protocol - but if the Officers are in Costa getting their Macchiato and the balloon goes up - presumably Gold Command etc would have to scramble, assess and review, grade and brief the situation before a PC would enter a potential scene guns akimbo? So is there really that much of a time saving?  Armed officers were on duty/call anyway? Additional firearms officers require additional funding and ongoing training.  Officers strolling the streets armed seems more posturing than actual need.  Unless there is a real  and present risk we need to be mindful that the perception of the Isle of Man being safe and a good place to bring your family to live is being compromised. Armed cops and dogs at the ports - yeah but random wandering for lunch and coffee not so much.  I would rather not see CC Foster downgrade the Isle of Mann to a UK suburb because that's the only Policing he knows.

You should read the thread from the start again.  This was all covered.

[Derek Flint]

1 hour ago, daisy said:

Agree that we need to be prepared. Having armed officers available - absolutely.  I'm not sure of the protocol - but if the Officers are in Costa getting their Macchiato and the balloon goes up - presumably Gold Command etc would have to scramble, assess and review, grade and brief the situation before a PC would enter a potential scene guns akimbo? So is there really that much of a time saving?  Armed officers were on duty/call anyway? Additional firearms officers require additional funding and ongoing training.  Officers strolling the streets armed seems more posturing than actual need.  Unless there is a real  and present risk we need to be mindful that the perception of the Isle of Man being safe and a good place to bring your family to live is being compromised. Armed cops and dogs at the ports - yeah but random wandering for lunch and coffee not so much.  I would rather not see CC Foster downgrade the Isle of Mann to a UK suburb because that's the only Policing he knows.

It happens very, very quickly.

Command of a spontaneous incident requiring an armed deployment is incredibly intense and high stress. One part of that was scratching around finding AFO's on duty, calling people in, waiting for them to kit up and get on the road. It was high stress for them too. That's when mistakes happen.

The standing authority mode of arming pre-deployment cuts out a massive part of the error chain. 

And Gold isn't even getting a call until Silver has all those parts in play, the bones of a plan and briefed officers deployed.

 

1 hour ago, Tinpot said:

You should read the thread from the start again.  This was all covered.

And I've just added another embellishment.