Assisted dying

[Max Power]

There has been a conversation about assisted dying on the island for years, and it looks like we will now be one of the last places to bring it in!

I was always a supporter, having seen both parents waste away terribly and in an undignified way. I am, however, now concerned about mission creep. The Netherlands, Canada and Belgium have begun to allow people with a mental illness, and even PTSD to enrol, and this includes very young people. A Belgian girl who witnessed the carnage of a terror attack elected to die, as she couldn't handle the trauma!

Don't forget, the Nazis had safeguards on their mental health euthanasia programme too, two doctors had to agree. Sounds familiar!   

[Manx Bean]

On 11/29/2024 at 2:59 PM, The Phantom said:

That'll stop the 'death tourists' that I understand was some of the concern about bringing it in here. 

The Isle of Man proposed legislation stipulates a minimum of a 5 year residency, which removes that loophole.

[Jarndyce]

1 hour ago, Max Power said:

Don't forget, the Nazis had safeguards on their mental health euthanasia programme too, two doctors had to agree. Sounds familiar!

Irrespective of whether I might be for or against the proposed legislation: the comparison which you’ve chosen to make is beyond crass.

Edited November 30, 2024 by Jarndyce

[Roger Mexico]

2 hours ago, code99 said:

[...]  3. Due to budgetary constraints, it seems that the Manx Care roll-out of shingle vaccine programme for elderly people (available on NHS in England and Wales) has been postponed.  

It does seem to have announced that shingles vaccination will be revived in the last few days after Moorhouse asked a question in this week's Keys.  Audio is here:

https://tynwald.scorchnetwork.com/?file=/business/listen/AgainFiles/O-202401-1687a.mp3

Manx Care had 'paused' the programme in April 2023.  The shingles vaccine had had been offered to all over-70s since 2013.  In 2023 the NHS in England had recommended on cost-effectiveness grounds that the age be dropped to 65 and then 60 and rather than a single dose of the previous vaccine, Zostavax, two of Shingrix should be used:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/shingles-vaccination-guidance-for-healthcare-professionals/shingles-immunisation-programme-information-for-healthcare-practitioners

Naturally this confused Manx Care and DHSC and they stopped vaccinating people altogether.

[Max Power]

1 hour ago, Jarndyce said:

Irrespective of whether I might be for or against the proposed legislation: the comparison which you’ve chosen to make is beyond crass.

It is yes, but it's meant to be. I'm sure that you have seen severe changes in public opinions on various things during your lifetime?

The very fact that the three countries I mentioned are willing to euthanize children suffering from mental health issues is way beyond crass, don't you think?   

[code99]

50 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

It does seem to have announced that shingles vaccination will be revived in the last few days after Moorhouse asked a question in this week's Keys.  Audio is here:

https://tynwald.scorchnetwork.com/?file=/business/listen/AgainFiles/O-202401-1687a.mp3

Manx Care had 'paused' the programme in April 2023.  The shingles vaccine had had been offered to all over-70s since 2013.  In 2023 the NHS in England had recommended on cost-effectiveness grounds that the age be dropped to 65 and then 60 and rather than a single dose of the previous vaccine, Zostavax, two of Shingrix should be used:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/shingles-vaccination-guidance-for-healthcare-professionals/shingles-immunisation-programme-information-for-healthcare-practitioners

Naturally this confused Manx Care and DHSC and they stopped vaccinating people altogether.

Thanks for your post, Roger.

"Health and Social Care Minister Claire Christian said the suspension stemmed from the new product having a "significantly higher cost". Christian said public health estimated that 3,000 people would have been affected by the pause but noted that not all of those would have taken up the vaccination. She said the additional funding for the new vaccination product was provided on a yearly basis and the department was looking at future "scoping costs".

This is another example of cost cutting/ cost postponement which might be good for Manx Care's budget but is definitely not good for residents. 

 

 

[Jarndyce]

27 minutes ago, Max Power said:

It is yes, but it's meant to be

Well done, you succeeded.

28 minutes ago, Max Power said:

The very fact that the three countries I mentioned are willing to euthanize children suffering from mental health issues is way beyond crass, don't you think

I think I'll need to do my own research, to establish if the form of words you've used there is an accurate reflection of the facts.

[display name]

On 11/29/2024 at 4:55 PM, hoopsaa said:

We have a very strange relationship with other species on this planet.

What you might get up to with other species is entirely your business.

[woolley]

9 hours ago, code99 said:

This current Government gives the impression that it dislikes some old poor people (old and rich people are OK because they can generally pay for their own health privately and are therefore not a burden on the Treasury's finances).

And many of them pay a hell of a lot of tax which will cease when they die, and their considerable assets are bequeathed in large part off the Island.

[Omobono]

14 minutes ago, woolley said:

And many of them pay a hell of a lot of tax which will cease when they die, and their considerable assets are bequeathed in large part off the Island.

unless Dr Death's next economic miracle is to introduce death duties  then that will really empty the place  , 

[woolley]

7 hours ago, Max Power said:

There has been a conversation about assisted dying on the island for years, and it looks like we will now be one of the last places to bring it in!

I was always a supporter, having seen both parents waste away terribly and in an undignified way. I am, however, now concerned about mission creep. The Netherlands, Canada and Belgium have begun to allow people with a mental illness, and even PTSD to enrol, and this includes very young people. A Belgian girl who witnessed the carnage of a terror attack elected to die, as she couldn't handle the trauma!

Don't forget, the Nazis had safeguards on their mental health euthanasia programme too, two doctors had to agree. Sounds familiar!   

It's a total no-brainer that should have been sorted out decades ago. I hear what you say about mission creep, but we should not delay doing the right thing now for fear of unintended consequences which may or may not arise later. Those issues can be addressed if and when the time comes.

The objectors, in the main, are screwballs that have religion hiding behind other spurious reasons, and they should not be allowed to impose their views on the freedom of the majority. This is not to shorten life, it is to alleviate and shorten suffering involved in inevitable death, and it is a choice within very strict guidelines. Even within the qualifying categories, nobody need take it up that doesn't wish to.

 

[Anyone]

Bloody Aberdonians. 

[code99]

10 hours ago, woolley said:

The objectors, in the main, are screwballs that have religion hiding behind other spurious reasons, and they should not be allowed to impose their views on the freedom of the majority. 

Really? I might be wrong but I think Nigel Farage voted 'No' (possibly received his instructions from that famous Christians-loving Trump who will be shortly threatening the UK Government with tariffs if the UK Government does not play ball e.g., willingness to support Ukraine, etc etc).

https://news.sky.com/story/how-did-your-mp-vote-on-the-assisted-dying-bill-13262957

[Twitch]

1 hour ago, code99 said:

Really? I might be wrong but I think Nigel Farage voted 'No' (possibly received his instructions from that famous Christians-loving Trump who will be shortly threatening the UK Government with tariffs if the UK Government does not play ball e.g., willingness to support Ukraine, etc etc).

https://news.sky.com/story/how-did-your-mp-vote-on-the-assisted-dying-bill-13262957

I don't think that's strictly true. My main objection (and I have no real issue with choice) is that our palliative and hospice care in the Isle of Man relies on charity. I don't think we should be pushing assisted suicide until we are all having a broader conversation about funding this type of care. However that won't get Allinson his coverage in the Guardian I guess. 

[Gladys]

7 minutes ago, Twitch said:

I don't think that's strictly true. My main objection (and I have no real issue with choice) is that our palliative and hospice care in the Isle of Man relies on charity. I don't think we should be pushing assisted suicide until we are all having a broader conversation about funding this type of care. However that won't get Allinson his coverage in the Guardian I guess. 

Doesn't the Hospice get some funding from DHSC/MC?