acorn

I think you are wrong John, Mona's Isle VI never sailed out of Liverpool, Heysham only. In anycase the dock you have in mind was Princes Dock which closed in 1982, a few years before the ship arrived. If you were on the N Wales vessel out of Douglas it was St Seriiol, St Tudno never visited Douglas. If however you'd sailed from Liverpool it could have been either. Oops sorry, didn't see the other response to this subject.

Like you John I go back a long way, Victoria, Viking or Liverpool and North Wales Steamship Company's St Seriol from Llandudno, anybody else remember those days? Probably not I'm just a sad old git. Anyway, so far as I know John no passenger ship serving the island has ever worked out of Liverpool docks. Certainly not post WW2, can't be sure pre WW2, doubt it though. The old cargo only ships, Peveril, Conister etc. used to go into the dock system at Liverpool, Brunswick dock for many years, as I recall. Passenger services however, certainly not.

I hope that I have made a few positive suggestions as to how the company could improve its profitability without major hikes in prices. Acorn forgetting the 'race to the bottom' what are your positive recommendations for achieving an improvement in the current situation? Simple Nationalisation is the obvious answer, run by a government owned company, note I say a government owned company, not a government run service. Though a govenrment run service would still be a massive improvement on the current rip off merchants in charge. It's a highly profitable service, currently being milked at our expense. Why shouldn't the profits from the service be ploughed back into the Manx economy? The inevitable objections are going to arise, borne out of neo-conservative (race to the bottom) dogma. The question I'd ask, before the rightard indoctrinated bleating starts, is why should a lifeline service not be run wholly for the benefit of the community it serves?

Lets hope that you are never in a situation were your job is being undercut by poverty wages then, then you wont even be able to afford to pay for the cheap and decent service. Chris these people are so taken up with their involvement in the race to the bottom, they're beyond reason. Best thing is to ignore them. Worrying thing is there's so many of them living here, it doesn't bode well for the future.

Hush now please, that sort of inconvenient, leftie fact doesn't go down well here.

... another 25 years rule by Tony Brown with terms dictated by Little Miss Moffat. Ho ho ho! Your utilisation of the art of repartee is truly amazing?

What concessions to they expect to obtain from a largely foreign company servicing £200m of debt? Its not like they have a lot of room to improve conditions or pay amongst servicing all that debt. Did I mention anything about winning concessions now? The workers are fighting for their livelihoods, of course there's going to be nothing from a foreign owned company without the slightest interest in the Isle of Man. The point I was trying to make was that the workers are quite entitled to seek to protect themselves as best they can, the current predicament is not of their making. Reading some of the anti union comment from the nasty minded rightards on here beggars belief. Still this is the land of tax dodgers and their associated itinerant parasites, nothing civilised and decent should be expected, silly me. Edited to add there's no way I support the current SP or, for that matter, the equally exploitative Dohle operation. I just have concern for the bad fortune of my innocent fellow humanity. Yet another alien concept, for tax dodgers and their parasites.

Cant say much about this other than it is 99% correct. and just watch the workers follow Bob Crow like lambs to the slaughter I feel considerable sympathy for the workers. How else are they going to defend themselves other than through collective representation? Is Woodward going to suddenly say "don't worry folks, I'll look after you"? Likewise the government? Erm don't think so, do you? Union knockers, more often than not, display considerable ignorance of industrial relations, brought about no doubt by dutifully following the mantra of the Telegraph, Mail, Sun and co.. A considerable majority of employers, especially fairly large employers, have one thing in mind, profit certainly not the improved welfare of it's staff. There's plenty of historic record around for anybody with an interest in finding out about the employer/employee struggle and that's what it's always been. Just wish some of those so willing to knock workforces would read up a bit and consider what's actually gone on in the past. Not just swallow meekly the tissue of lies spun by their choice of daily right wing political dogma.

lets home the plane crashers then what is he coming over to do. make the SP strike intill the gov give in. i some how dowt the SP could afford that some how. Just what the island needs a throw back to the 70's buffoon, hope our buffoons are strong enough not to take note !! There's plenty of buffoons already involved in the affair that is for sure, I could name one or two contributing to this thread come to think about it. What do you envisage then? Some form of incisive and brilliant intercedence from Mr Woodward? Or maybe Mr Brown?

Oh my God, you pointless little prick And your point Englishman is?? What exactly do you tug?

in A W Moore 1897 speed run Empress Queen - Mean Speed, Bar to Douglas Head, 22.85 knots, likewise for sea trials of the 1910 Snaefell and I did phrase it as a question - however I will bow to your better knowledge - maybe you could give a ref or two so I can correct my ignorance There's any amount of literature available on the Steam Packet, may I suggest you read some of it, or go to the Manx Museum and dig out the SP logs there, you'll find frequent mention of the 'Rock'. As for me? My grandfather was not only a Manxman but a seaman too, amongst other employers, he had several stints with the SP, apart from the books and logs read, I have the benefit of knowledge passed on from someone actually doing the job and being there. Incidentally you appear to place great importance on verification by writers, how did the various authors gain their knowledge? Research obviously but also talking to people with real life experience. Think about it. To be fair Frances of the many self appointed, English/assorted Comeover, Manx 'experts' you are far from being the most irritating. At least you appear to have studied the Island seriously, your usual comment reflects your genuine interest and accumulated knowledge too. You chose the island as your hobby but it could, just as easily, have been Jersey, Anglesey or Rockall for that matter. I've no doubt that whichever island you decided upon, it's history would have been subjected to your obvious intellectual rigour. So far as I'm concerned you're most welcome here, there's no suggestiom of 'boat in the morning' in this comment. However despite your learned knowledge of our island you'll never 'get' what being Manx means. Same as I could never 'get' Warrington, no matter how much I may read up on the town.

Look what happens when iomtoday.co.im stops allowing comments; its long term resident nutjob / loony / writer of long boring diatribes that nobody is interested in immediately registers here. Nobody is interested in your whack-job theories Barrie. There's enough angry nutters on here already and most of them actually live here. You don't so why don't you just sod off? You could call that protocol 4; the right of the Manx people to passport boring nutters throughout Europe. Doesn't the looney even live here? Dear me, he's even sadder than I thought.

were not all 'old' sailing times quoted from the Mersey bar and not the departure from Pier head Traditionally sailing times were recorded from the The Rock to Douglas head. The Rock being near enough off New Brighton lighthouse at the mouth of the Mersey, Douglas Head being self explanatory. One thing is for sure Frances, you may well be a, self appointed, expert on all things Manx, snag is you're an English comeover and don't know it all.

It's equally interesting to note your dogged support for the Steam Packet throughout the above mentioned 20 pages. I don't have a clue who you are, or where your loyalties lie. I could make a few guesses though, I bet at least one of won't be far off the mark either.

Really difficult dad, honest

How true, you are of course 100% correct, it is human nature to protect one's finacioal interests. Alternatively, anybody who takes any comment as read, without questioning what is behind the commentators motivation, for example the success of a magazine wholly dependent on good relations with the SP. Surely if you, for example, would swallow it, you must be well...........................daft?

Isn't Ships of Mann the company house magazine available on board? No, Ships of Mann is not the Company House magazine. It is an independent publication which deals with the Steam Packet in particular but also other Manx, Did Woody tell you what to say? So to recap you run a magazine which is independent, nonetheless it seems to rely on the Steam Packet for much of it's content and the company sells your magazine on board it's vessels, making the goodwill of the company rather crucial for the magazine's financial success and content I'd guess. Your business sounds a bit like the SP with all it's eggs in one basket, if this is your magazine's website:- http://www.shipsofmann.org.uk It certainly seems rather Steam Packet centric. From your comments highlighted above, it appears you also share Woodward's arrogance and disdain for anybody with the temerity to suggest that the Steam Packet is anything but wonderful. Also nobody here needs a Liverpool based publisher to lecture us about events in 1978.

Isn't Ships of Mann the company house magazine available on board? Did Woody tell you what to say?

Oh bother muck up on my part, sorry.

Think you may need to acquaint yourself with the machinations of the company. What about the millions forked out for the debt which has been loaded on the company? There's also been allegations of asset stripping, interesting if true.