Torry loon

And I think Lonan3 summed it up quite well:

What the person has said (including on manxforums) is perfectly reasonable, well written and persuasive...until their petition to make the whole site into a memorial. There was quite a discussion developed a few months back on Manx Nostalgia Facebook page. As well as the claim about there being no chains on the doors there was also the assertion by someone caught in the fire that they thought Professor Phillips paper on Summerland contained mostly rubbish, or words to that effect. (I would normally link and source, but just now I don't have time). Facebook is largely non-anonymous and obviously a lot more reliable than what we might read on manxforums. Not necessarily though.

On one of the Facebook pages, someone who worked there insists that no exits were chained. Just saying.

Let me Google™ that for you....

Well thank you irishone for quoting my post. I think good ol' Blade Runner must have overlooked it first time round...

A fair enough post manxman1980. I hope I don't sound patronising but: the reason that the public don't generally question whether something is safe or not - we cross a bridge, jump on a ferry, even stand on a piece of glass at the top of Blackpool Tower, or whatever - is because in our society we know and trust there are Regulations and laws in place to make such places safe when they are built. This allows us to not worry about such mundane things as assessing the safety of a building ourselves whenever we enter, we just get on with life and leave that to others. In the case of Summerland, people were let down by the authorities. To suggest otherwise, is a bit divisive. (btw I am not at home just now, but when I can I will post up the newspaper interview regarding the reporter raising questions about fire safety when the building was opened. It's no big deal, but it happened.)

There was enough concern shown before the fire. To quantify that concern is pointless and irrelevant. So, a handful of people raised concern against huge numbers of professional people and people in authority who did not express concern. Righto. Really? So it was normal to ignore Regulations and seek to have them relaxed. It was normal to cut costs. You are being 'manx' Gladys. It was 'the norm for the time'. Really? Why would anyone want to relax Regulations, or cut corners on costs? Why? There would have been many people who 'felt smug and wiped their brow with a shrug, happy to have got away with it'. Oh don't worry, there would have been sighs of relief followed by woops of joy each time there was an inspection on site or a set of drawings got through Building Control and a relaxation was given. And there would have been much smugness when they 'got away with it'. But that of course...of course....would have been before the tradegy. I obviously realise that that smugness would have turmed to horror. The 'let's move on' sentiment was from emanating from your previous post and then Blade Runner and Quilp with their +1 Regarding Summerland, I did not say that was the sentiment at the time. Oh is that how you treat people who are looking for a balanced and hopefully truthful account? They are just "baying for blood" and "making people feel shameful". Really. Now that is 'manx', that really is. What makes you think I had no first hand knowledge, and how is that relevant anyway? Or is that just another tool to dispel someone who does not toe the establishment line on a matter. It really is 'manx' that one. My criticism of the stairs was that there were Regulations in place that dictated, or should have dictated, that a particular (and now infamous) staircase should have been wider than it was. They got away with that one though.

So it was the Regulations what done it? There were sufficient Regulations in place.

"Lessons were learnt" "Move on" ..and all the rest of the platitudes that come out of the Isle of Man authorities. Although obviously that stance is not confined to the Manx way of doing things. OK, I was too young to give a damn other than getting down stairs to the rolling skating ring. But you are asking was there anything obvious? Well yes there was, to a reporter (as I have stated before in this thread) who posed the question what would happen in a fire. That is not the usual sort of question that would be asked when a new building is show-cased. An example of an obvious/apparent design fault: the infamous flying stairway was 3' 6" wide in places. The Theatre Regulations required 5'. Now, I'm not wanting to rake all this stuff up, but I am certainly not going to get the 5 gallon drum of whitewash out. Which seems to be the intention of some on here. "Lessons were learnt". They certainly f-cking well were.

Blade Runner, you have got your Über Establishment head on yet again. That is a ridiculous statement. Why do you come out with such rubbish? For example, the flying staircase did not comply with Theatre Regulations in that they were too narrow although this was said to be acceptable by the authorities. There was a certain amount of criticism of the Building Regulations and the way Building Control was administered. From Dr Phillips Report of the inquiry Chapter 6 “The regulations cannot guard against incompetence on the part of architects, designers, engineers or builders unless there is an adequate system of independent inspection by Building Control Officers. This was certainly not the case in the Isle of Man”.

Here SMUJ:

There was a big spread in the local newspapers when the building opened. The reporter writing the article asked then, how would the building perform in a fire. The interviewee - one of the architects - assured the reporter everything was ok. So it was a question that popped into a hack's head before the building opened. No hindsight.

There are some vivid descriptions in the Liverpool Echo of 2nd August 2013 from people who were there.

About this time, colour photography was just about standard, even for snapshot photography. These photos were taken, I understand by a keen amateur or freelance photographer and so has good kit. Colour photography had been used for well over 100 years before Summerland. But I think we digress....

The lady mentioned the account from her sister was in the newspaper. She said read it there. The newspapers are easily accessed on microfilm in the Manx Museum. Unfortunately, I cannot access them just now otherwise I would. However - and it is a big however - if you look through the newspapers for that time on microfilm you will notice that one week, one of the newspapers was not put onto microfilm and when scrolling through it is easy to not realise. Perhaps a bit like the malfunctions that cause Isle of Man Hansard to drop embarrassing speeches in Tynwald, there was a hiccup in the workings. (Sorry if that sounds like I am trying to fuel the conspiracy theorists' minds, I'm not, I am just stating fact)

In the e-mail I got I was asked to confirm if I was attending as there was a "buffet etc" after for those who attended!! People had a lot to talk about and nowhere to go, and a lot of them are now elderly, after all it has taken 40 years to get to this stage!Perhaps there was a church hall or similar that could have been used! It was actually very embarrassing!! The lady I sat beside hadn't heard tell of it and she only found out about the service at the last minute and she had lost relatives!! I heard a number of people say that there were others who hadn't known.It was cringeworthy! I am disgusted to hear that. There are Douglas Councillors read and post on this forum, I wonder would they like to comment.

MTTV Oh dear.

I would hope there must be more to it all, but from a Douglas ratepayer, I would have thought there could have been a reception or something. That would have been very worthwhile - unlike some of the receptions they have at our expense. Judging by the stream of photographs that appear so often in the newspapers, Douglas Corporation would hold a reception for the opening of a crisp packet (any excuse to get in the mayor's parlour for a councillor's free booze up, it seems to me).

. Maybe, after all, nothing has changed in 40 years.

+1 (with acknowledgement to the rest of the post)

Au contraire. It shows the very strong bonds that exist between the authorities on our Island. From the lowest civil servants right through to the top judge/deputy governor. ...Built firm as Barrule, Thy Throne of Home Rule

I can't see anyone would have any objections to your video. You should have no reservations. I don't think you will unearth forgotten horrors or anything, as those memories remain whether or not there are reminders on youtube or wherever. Nicely put together video. Poignant of course. Edited to add: Old Manxie, I'm not trying to be clever, but youtube doesn't prevent any problems with screen shots anymore. But I am sure your well intended consideration is appreciated.

There is an interesting discussion on Facebook about Summerland. Manx Nostalgia One contributor, who says she was working in Summerland on the night: I have a very clear and concise memory of that night and it's very different from what's being written Also: In fact virtually nothing I read in the 'In depth' review carried out by Dr Phillips is true. Which is worrying.

Really? Where can you go in the world these days with your family for a pleasant away from it all holiday. Ibifa? (an example place that took the mass tourism from the Island) I seriously believe the time will come when there will be a good market to look after families as a unit for their holidays. When they can spend time together and just slow down... s l o w d o w n . . . . . and relax. Have breakfast together with no timetables, go down the beach and do daft silly things that suburbia simply can't offer. Have you ever made a sand castle with your family for a couple of hours, and then watched as the tide slowly swept away your creation. Have you ever been on an Island where although the network is good the physical transport routes are remote and your office will simply leave you alone to your family. Have you ever strolled through a resort at midnight withour the risk of intimidation (pushing that one, I know, but Dezzie and the lads are getting there) Blah, blah, blah. As far as bringing up a family in pleasant surroundings, cities are a shite hole these days (I give Isle of Man Tourism the right to use that phrase) and so are most of the more popular family resorts, around the world...shite (do.) The Isle of Man has something to offer. That trip across the Irish Sea could indeed one day offer a little bit of paradise for our UK cousins. As it did for over 100 years. (Although then it was the paradise of all day boozing and entertainment, which the UK mainland wouldn't provide at the time.) Mass tourism and 'get away from it all' could be ours again, given a bit of time and the mess that the motherland is making for itself. Edited purely to add: Sorry to go off topic a bit. This is a serious thread regarding Summerland but I am sure Ruth will understand my diversion.