P.K.

It's just some members of the UNGA playing gesture politics and that's all.

Just now, RecklessAbandon said:

So hang on, you keep bouncing between terrorist, fighter and insurgent (which is apparently just a civilian with a gun).

And we are referring to an ethnic group, Palestinian Arabs.  You know, the people (civilians) in Palestine and Gaza who the IDF and Israeli government is literally bombing into the Stone Age.

Now you're just getting boring.

4 minutes ago, RecklessAbandon said:

For some reference for those who haven't looked it up:

"On the morning of April 9, Irgun and Lehi forces entered the village from different directions.[6] The Zionist militants massacred Palestinian Arab villagers, including women and children, using firearms and hand grenades, as they emptied the village of its residents house by house.[7][8] The inexperienced militias encountered resistance from a few armed villagers and suffered some casualties.[9] The Haganah directly supported the operation, providing ammunition and covering fire, and two Palmach squads entered the village as reinforcement.[10] A number of villagers were taken captive and paraded through West Jerusalem before being executed.[1][11][12] In addition to the killing and widespread looting, there may have been cases of mutilation and rape.[13] For decades it was believed that 254 Palestinian Arabs had been killed, although present scholarship puts the death toll at around 110.[14] By the end of the operation all of the villagers had been expelled[15] and the Haganah took control of the village.[16] In 1949 the village was resettled by Israelis, becoming part of Givat Shaul.

News of the killings was widely publicized, sparking terror among Palestinians across the country, frightening many to flee their homes in anticipation of further violence against civilians by advancing Jewish forces. The massacre greatly accelerated the 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight and strengthened the resolve of Arab governments to intervene, which they did five weeks later, beginning the 1948 Arab-Israeli war.[4][17] The Haganah denied its role in the attack and publicly condemned the massacre, blaming it on the Irgun and Lehi, and the Jewish Agency for Palestine (which controlled the Haganah), sent Jordan's King Abdullah a letter of apology, which Abdullah rejected, holding them responsible.[18] Four days after the Deir Yassin massacre, on April 13, a reprisal attack on the Hadassah medical convoy in Jerusalem ended in a massacre killing 78 Jews, most of whom were medical staff.[19][20] Material in Israeli military archives documenting the Deir Yassin massacre remains classified.[21]"

Your source failed to mention that the tit-for-tat reprisals started four days later when Arabs slaughtered a convoy of some 70+ medics en route to a hospital.

Just now, RecklessAbandon said:

You know who else was kind of famous for othering an entire ethnic group as "vermin"?

Terrorists are not necessarily an ethnic group you idiot.

5 minutes ago, RecklessAbandon said:

I wasn't asking for a self reflective assessment, I was asking you to clarify if they are civilians with guns or terrorists.

Again, I expect the usual word salad.

Call them whatever you like.

I tend to use the term "vermin" as it suits them...

1 minute ago, RecklessAbandon said:

So are they terrorists or insurgents?  Make up your mind.

Idiot!

Just now, HeliX said:

Of course the timing isn't a coincidence, but we're discussing the cause not the choice of start date.

The cause was the partition of Palestine by the UN to create a much needed Jewish safe haven.

Everything flows from there.

3 minutes ago, RecklessAbandon said:

So they know there are 30,000 to 40,000 Hamas fighters, but they don't know who or where they are?

And that doesn't sound the slightest bit suspect to you?

An insurgency is civilians with guns you idiot!

15 minutes ago, HeliX said:

It's one in a long series of massacres of Palestinians carried out by Israelis between the 1930s and the kicking off of the war. I've not suggested anyone in the region is blameless (other than civilians).

You keep claiming that the Deir Yassin Massacre and others kicked off the invasion but to me that simply doesn't ring true.

The Israelis announced the independent State of Israel on the 14th May 1948. That evening the Arab League air forces attacked. The following day their ground offensive commenced.

Now that's not a coincidence...

Just now, HeliX said:

So you agree that Americans who aren't very fond of Palestinian kids being turned into skeletons have a good reason to protest the American government about it. Why did you deflect instead of just saying that?

Not deflecting anything.

Being in a free country means you can say what you like within reason.

However that doesn't necessarily mean It's the way to go.

5 minutes ago, HeliX said:

Once again, the Arab League invaded because Israel kept massacring civilians.

You keep referring to the Deir Yassin Massacre which in my opinion was carried out by a bunch of scummy terrorists. It succeeded in kicking off a downward spiral of tit-for-tat slaughters by Arabs as well so It's not as though they're entirely blameless now is it...

11 minutes ago, HeliX said:

The Government gave that money. From everyone's taxes. And bombs. From everyone's taxes.

The US taxpaying diaspora give as well.

In fact I recall that at one time they could claim tax relief on their donations to Israel. Which really does illustrate what a powerful US lobby group they are hence the government aid.

Lucky Israel as I'm sure you will agree....

5 minutes ago, HeliX said:

As usual you dodge anything you can't respond to. You know this is why almost nobody bothers to engage with you?

BS.

You talk about the Arab League thinking others would follow UN resolutions which is complete and utter tosh because that same Arab League invaded the territory with the aim of destroying the state set up by the UN!

Even you must realise that's a nonsense...

46 minutes ago, HeliX said:

They didn't yet realise that Israel is a rogue state that will ignore any and all international judgements, so they probably thought it would follow UN Resolution 194.

That's got to be one of your worst yet!

And It's a very busy field...

49 minutes ago, RecklessAbandon said:

Hmmmm, one of the best funded and internationally supported militaries in the world with access to some of the most sophisticated surveillance and tracking facilities in the world?  What tactics would I employ?

Specific and targeted Special Forces raids against verified targets using real time intelligence and international collaboration.

Or we could just drop city block destroying bombs on civilian populations with no realistic escape.  (/sarcasm)

There were some 30,000 to 40,000 Hamas fighters embedded in the population over 140+ square miles.

So what timescales did you put around reducing their numbers by "targetted" SF raids? You know, to the nearest decade will do. Always assuming you can find them of course...

You really are completely and utterly clueless...

6 minutes ago, HeliX said:

Has their country recently given 24billion dollars and near limitless ordnance to any of those?

Have their fellow countrymen ever been subjected to a Holocaust...?

If the Jewish diaspora in places like the USA want to contribute to keeping the Promised Land intact then good luck to them...

1 minute ago, RecklessAbandon said:

Again, you're ability to shower your self in irony is astounding.

How is the reconciling the death of roughly 35K civilians and counting (including thousands of children) going for you?

War is a very nasty, dirty, miserable business. Fighting an insurgency deliberately embedded in the civilian population is probably the worst of the lot.

Unfortunately when you are attacked you have to respond. That's when some people have to make difficult decisions and then others have to get hard, ugly things done. Not because they want to. But because they have to.

If you understood this you would realise how fatuous your post above is and indeed a lot of your other tripe.

So, General, what military tactics would you have employed to deal with Hamas...?

25 minutes ago, RecklessAbandon said:

Oh such sweet, sweet irony.

Oh such sweet, sweet ignorance...

9 hours ago, HeliX said:

The partition was grossly unfair, and the attempt to "destroy the State of Israel" was because Israel kept fucking massacring Palestinians.

It would have been so much better had the Arab League sorted their sierra and aided the Palestinian Arabs.

But they didn't. Why was that? 

15 minutes ago, HeliX said:

No, as stated, the primary driving force behind the animosity and war is displacement, and then the Deir Yassin Massacre.

Now you're just trying to wheedle out of the fact that the UN partitioned the territory and the antisemitic Arab League concentrated on destroying the State of Israel rather than consolidating land for the Palestinian Arabs.

Which is why the Arab League have to take most of the blame for the current situation...

1 hour ago, HeliX said:

That's not what I said.

So you agree that the antisemitism of the Arab League made them completely ignore how much assistance they could give the Palestinian Arabs to secure territory around the State of Israel in favour of the destruction of the State of Israel and It's people?

Personally I think you should quit while you're behind...

21 minutes ago, HeliX said:

What country has ever handed over a massive portion of it's land for no reward? If any other ethnic group had been gifted a load of land there do you think they'd have let it slide given you seem to think the problem is antisemitism and not the grossly unfair transfer of land and ensuing disposession and violence?

So according to you the Arab League is not antisemitic...?

1 hour ago, HeliX said:

Zionists had begun killing and displacing Palestinians before this point. One of the worst offences was what lead to the Arab Israeli war, the Deir Yassin Massacre. Between 250,000 and 300,000 Palestinians had fled or been expelled prior to the Arab-Israeli war.

As usual your "reality" is selective.

What was UN resolution 194 again?

Had the Arab League helped to consolidate Palestinian lands in the territory alongside the State of Israel organised by, let's face it, the good intentions of the UN things would have been very different.

Instead, blinded by antisemitism, all they could think of was the destruction of the State of Israel and It's people.

And it would appear some things just don't change...

13 minutes ago, HeliX said:

Why did the refugees exist?

They were the direct result of the Arab League invasion of 1948. You know, when they attempted to destroy the fledgling State of Israel and drive the survivors into the sea.

Fail.

Reality first bit you in the arse starting about here:

https://www.manxforums.com/topic/57541-israel-vs-the-rest-of-the-world/?do=findComment&comment=1748416

Just now, HeliX said:

I don't see it in the last 2 pages.

Your problem.