gazza

@Gazza - a roll cloud.

cheers china.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S68qmo1zT58&feature=player_embedded

Gigantic Rotating Cloud Vortex

strange

 

But your final sentance sums it up, it was nothing more than a little stunt from a small company.

But there not a small company,

there bigger than the SP

The thing is, apart from the supermarkets,

mezeron may well have took a few extre bookings that used to go on the steam packet back to ramsey with them,

they can still ship containers in for anybody that wants them,

yes it may not be everyday, but that can allways be planned around.

And the amount of free advertisment they got from this little stunt will be worth a hell of a lot to them,

Mmmm..... Not heard much from gazza or sean south about this yet! Wonder why?

That could be because some of us have work todo in the day and cant sit on a computer all day doing sod all

well as the steam packet had to re organize new prices with most of the companys that use them to safe gaurd there shipping, and no dowt graylaw got a good price drop,

and that graylaw and mezeron were at the start of this new route,

Then i would say they prob did what they started out to do

If they are charging £1200 one way then the SP has nothing to worry about, the hauliers will soon be back to using the Ben my Chree.

In an earlier posting you state the Graylaw/Mezeron run was set up because the SP were charging so much but in your second paragraph here you state that the ferry is cheaper.

Not only does your maths not add up, neither do your arguements.

By the way I've let you prattle on but I know for a fact Mezeron charge no where near what you are claiming.

I think you have been confussed, maybe these points will make u see stright

no the SP charge the £1200, or should i say around the £1000 mark,

mezeron are cheaper than the SP, so no they wont be bcak using the ben my chree,

How do my maths not add up, please shyow exsample.

and yes my arguements do stand up.

To be fair i have no idea what mezeron charge for the douglas services, But i do know that they charge about £400-500 a 20ft flat,

And have heard of £800 for a 40ft trailer, which would be about right.

 

But with everything that's going on my mate says Old Mr Barratt will be spinning in his grave.

Noboody knows that, maybe Mr barrat would have done the same thing, who knows,

which ever way it is, Mr barratt is not here, Mr Barrat can not decide what is best for his compnay,

and in respect I see this as quite a harsh thing to say on a public fourm where to be honest your just saying somebodys opion on the matter, which could be vary well unfounded and untrue, but vary upsetting for family members to read.

lack of respect to the deceased and the living in my book,

You tell me how many boxes a day they're shifting! If they're charging £6m a year the Greylaw/Mezeron rates are a hell of a lot more than the SP ever charged. If you consider Mezeron are averaging about 17 boxes a day and a lot less at the weekends and as you say some of those are for other hauliers they must be charging a very steep rate.

well do the maths on a trailer at £1200 one way, and you tell me how i got my figures,

do it on the 17 trailers a day, thats a nice little earner,

yes the ferry is not that much but thats what companys charge say u and me to ship a triler out.

now even if you do it on £800 a trailer which has been said what the sp charged, between 800-1000 a trip,

them figures soon add up.

Not to sure you are on about here, but I'd like to know how you arrived at the figure of £3m.

how many wagons a day from tescos, and the 3 million is one way not both, so you can go 6 million if you like, not including the xmas or orther busy times and this is on the min amount per day,

<snip> but I do not see the long term viability of the current 'Graylaw' service.

 

What are your thoughts there then?

 

I'm interested purely as it 'appears' that Graylaw has some sort of link with Stobarts... i.e. Both logos on containers...

 

More info please...

Yes the Stobarts link is really with Tesco. If you look at the containers, the 'Graylaw' logo is rather fresh compared to the others.

 

The expansion in Mezeron's activities has been 'bank rolled' by a certain haulier. Yes, technically it is Mezeron / Doehle, but they were not the driving force in setting this larger LO-LO service up. It was rather the other way around.

not surprised really at the price they were being charged,

but they have a few million to play with till they start losing over the sp, just with the 1 contract alone let alone all the other stuff they bring in,

with tescos worth at least 3 million a year in shipping alone, thats a lot of cash to play with

i guess you must be privy to there costing and everything then

Im sure as hell think the owners will lose out as well.

What you think they just go o well who cares,

Who knows they may well have everything at stake on this.

What I'm trying to get across is that in the long term it's to no bodies advantage. Both companies will take financial hits, jobs will be lost and the consumer, both passenger and freight, will end up with a poorer service. This was why is was comparing it to Stena/DFDS.

I dont see mezeron taking a financial hit, if anything i would say the isle of man side will prob see a good increase in revenue,

yes i see the SP taking a big hit. But if they were run normaly without this huge debt, then services should not be effected because they would be able to compeate with them,

And this is the point, its all about the loan, thats all its ever been about,

it has northing to do with the people, the company the workers, its all about the owners being able to keep there ass out of the fire.

let them burn they stoked the fire for so long and took the piss for even longer that they only have themselfs to blame.

Not really, SP overheads and commitments to the User Agreement cost considerablely more than Mezeron with their cheap rate charter vessels.

SP employ over 300 people, Mezeron I beleive employ about 35.

Thats not mezerons fault is it.

And like we all said in the past the SP problems is not because of mezeron, but because of the loans, with out the loans it would not be a problem

These fares are then compared to Packet prices and the slagging off of the SP continues.

Hope that makes sense as I've got one eye on the footie at the moment.

But does not mezeron offring the service cheaper, show the slagging off about SP prices, was valid

Mezerons charter of the Kalana and Kurkse is due to finish at the end of the month, any news if they have extended it?

 

well as the index for shipping goods, or should i say the cost to hire theses ships, has dropped to a vary low lvl since they first hired them, who knows we could see mezeron

dropping there costs even more!!

 

These type of ships occupy a specialised niche. The general indices may not fully apply or be relevant. These are such tiny ships. Unless one wants to cause more trouble for the Steampacket with a view to knocking them out the usual tack at this stage is to make more money off lower rates. In order to really get the price of such tonnage ans future market indications one has to consult a short-sea or coastal broker in much the same way as one asks the odds from a Bookie!

hmm lets see, big ships move big items or lots of items,

this price gos down if the amounts of items to be shipped drops.

so less things to move, which would mean less things getting brought,

we still need to ship things here in a SMALLER ship, so does have a knock on effect to the price

Mezerons charter of the Kalana and Kurkse is due to finish at the end of the month, any news if they have extended it?

well as the index for shipping goods, or should i say the cost to hire theses ships, has dropped to a vary low lvl since they first hired them, who knows we could see mezeron

dropping there costs even more!!

 

 

Has anyone noticed a reduction in the prices on the shelves in Tesco, have they passed on the saving that they are making by shipping with Mezeron, shoprite have said that they will be passing on any saving by improving the shops, has anyone seen any improvements yet. I would say that it will be no on both cases, once again it will be the average man in the street who will lose out whilst the likes of Tesco and Graylaw profits get bigger. It will be us the people of the Isle of Man who lose the benefits of a good reguler reliable service.

Why should they pass this on to you. i cant see why they should, they have no right to pass it on or need,

So quastion to you is, why should they pass it on to you!!!!!!!!!!

Barrie Stevens

 

 

I think I am right in saying that the Steampacket, as part of the Linkspan Agreement, must have half its Directors on the Island and some sort of equal commitment as regards Manx flag (which is a sub-division of the British Register) and other local "ethnic" requirements.

 

They are also required to invest tens of millions in a commitment to the Island whereas Mezeron is only committed in this context to its charters.

 

The whole point of the problem is that Mezeron are not bound by this (Linkspan Agreement) and their whole operation I think would founder if they took on the same responsibilities.

Barrie you seam to be hung up on this point, i have read it many times from you that the steam packet have an unfair advantage because of the linkspan.

You really are talking shit, because if it was unfair the steam packet would not have got it extended again and again.

The company would have been brought for 200 million if it was unfair.

So really your talking bollocks as noraml as well its only you that sees it as unfair and not the company that signed it, which they did not have to

 

 

As I have stated, the unions are not out to protect or even stand up for the company, we are only interested in protecting the conditions and employment of our members. If Mezeron carry on winning frieght from the Steam Packet the company could be forced into liquidation and cease operating altogether, this would then allow Mezeron if they so wished, to operate a RoRo service from Douglas using the link spans as the Steam Packet would have broken the user agreement. As Mezeron are now owned by Dohle who we know for a fact only employ seafarers from the former eastern block and would not be interested in employing the then redundent ex Steam packet employees, you would have a shipping company operating from the Isle of Man paying poverty wages under slave conditions. This is moraly wrong and should be nipped in the bud before it goes any further. As I have said all along, it will be the people of the Isle of Man who loose out in this, not the fat cats at the top of both companies, it is the Isle of Man that will be left with a sub standard service crewed by people who are being exploited by a company who appear to have no regard for the welfare of there employees. If any of you on this forum are happy to let this happen then all I can say is shame on you, and lets hope that you are never in the same situation that the employees of the Steam Packet are in now.

You find the steam packet forced themselfs into liquidation by there owners, not mezeron!!!!!!.

a

I do not think those oportunities presently exist in the market that you do. It does not seem that many others do either as I do not see many jumping in to the market place.

Really? Well three new routes/operators (Ro-Ro/Ro-Pax) started in the past year on the Irish Sea. I haven't included Mezeron in that either. In shipping terms in the Irish Sea area I'd call that substantial. You wouldn't I take it? How many would you expect in an average year then?

 

And there's (at least) three new vessels on the way for expansion in the coming year...

 

 

I think I will go with what the freight link blog says. It does not really look like a prime market to expand into!

 

Too many ships / too many routes / not enough customers?

Monday, June 28th, 2010

The Western European ferry market is having to contend with testing trading conditions at present, and there are a number of things happening that are not making it easy for ferry operators to turn a profit. From environmental compliance, the generally high cost of marine fuel and the introduction of ultra low sulphur fuel in areas such as the North Sea and Baltic Sea, these are all issues impacting on the bottom line of ferry companies over which they have very little direct control. In a weak freight transport market, ferry operators are chasing fewer customers to support their respective services which causes a “price war” on some routes where only the end user (aka the customer) benefits. With ships to fill and schedules to operate, ferry companies have little choice but to drop rates to attract new traffic and to try and keep hold of what they have already got. And so the circle of margin and profit erosion continues……

 

So, what can the industry do to combat these negative issues. Well, taking out some capacity would be a start, but this is easier said than done. What is stopping consolidation is not the ferry companies’ lack of money to buy their peers, but the European Commission’s competition rules. Both the MD’s of Stena Ro-ro and Norfolkline have recently claimed that these rules made it very difficult to tale over a competitor which had services on the same route. The general view from the ferry industry is that a softening of competition rules would actually help to create a more stable market through consolidation.

 

Take, for example, the Irish Sea market.

 

All the operators who have services on the Irish Sea would agree that the market has been tough now for nearly two years. However in this time, a draft of new tonnage has been introduced by companies such as Norfolkline, Seatruck and Stena Line. There has even been a new entrant to the market, Fastnet Line. Carriers such as Norfolkline and Seatruck have replaced older, smaller ships with bigger, newer vessels and Stena Line took the decision to remove their HSS high speed craft from year round use (due to fuel costs) and replace with a freight vessel offering more freight space, and more daily departures than when the HSS was operating full time.

Now, this is a market that is crying out for consolidation. There is not one company who is operating to capacity, and the major players would dearly love to be able to rationalise and consolidate. Indeed at a recent conference in Bremen, Germany the MD of Stena Ro-ro Bo Severed said “On the Irish Sea, there is intense competition, but from a competition rule point of view it is impossible to do something and we really need [consolidation], not only because we want a more stable market and more stable prices, but from an environmental point of view this is crucial. We need to look at ways soften competition rules to get this going”

 

Consolidation in other industries, such as air travel, is happening now as a direct impact of the global economic downturn and high fuel costs. Companies such as British Airways & Iberia, Untied Airlines & Delta have joined together in consolidating and combining their businesses to offer customers a network of services but to also benefit from “economies of scale”. There are many similarities between the aviation industry and the marine industry. The ferry industry needs “economies of scale”. I wonder how soon it will be before some of the “house hold” names of today’s ferry industry disappear through consolidation and become redundant brand names such as Sealink, Sally Lines and Ferryways?. Only time (and our leaders in Brussels) will tell!

so there saying theres to many companys working that sea lane, but on the other hand not one of them will pull out. they must be making something then, or the prize when one gos is worth hangging on for.

Plus its allways good to say its not profatable because then you may scare off any new companys that our thinking of joining in.

ask any company owner or manager if they make a hugh profits, thye will allways say no the market is tight and we only just making a profit.

Its not as if you would public say, yes we make millions a day loads of room for more to enter the market,

Its called protecting your company

I'm a bit confused by the SPCo's latest statement:

In a statement, the Packet says it has no desire to see Manx companies experiencing shortages, but that it cannot always accomodate freight last minute.

So on one hand they can't manage without getting all the freight yet they're not sure if they can carry all the freight...

back to making him look like a spoilt child.

was there any need to make the statment. IMO i dont think there is.

If the boats full so be it, but i dont think they will have the boat that full theses days.

sounds like toys out of pram

further pub gossip was that steam pkt actually shipped the crane over for them (obviously not knowing of its usage)irony is a darned thang,but

 

That is true, and yes the SP did not know who it was for as it was booked on by a diffrent company,

 

How are Graylaw not getting slagged off as the instigator of this turmoil ?

they are sitting back and letting the shipping companies carry the can

 

cant see its graylaws fault.

 

mezeron did not have to ship to douglas, they diden have to do anything graylaw wanted,

they seen an opeing and they took it.

they are totally to blame, as without graylaw switching their custom from SPCo to Messyron this situation would not exist. If messyron didn't have graylaw business it would not matter if they used Douglas or not

 

People need to consider the bottom line, if this has directly benefited them, I expect the vast majority of people will only find increases in their travel costs, they will not get anything cheaper in the supermarkets as a result

 

the reaction on here is just the crab syndrome, not wanting to see aussie pensioners benefiting from our spending on travel and shipping

so what your saying is that graylaw went to mezeron and said look ship into douglas and u can have all our work. And you know this as fact because!!!!!!!.

So mezeron never thought i know lets do a costing of shipping into douglas with containers, worked out the figure they needed and the cost then went to graylaw and said.

we can this for ££££ would you do it.

And it does not matter who started what, If a company on the island is not allowed to look at ways of reducing its costs and is stopped because of 1 company, what an exsample this would set to the rest of the world that infact freedom to florish is not allowed on the island.

The real blame lies with that of the company that paid 200mill oddd to buy a company they thought would make them quids in.

Without this debt on there heads, they could go right we have compertion we need to win it back, drop the price to win it back.

And that is the whole reason the SP are in this mess is because of that debt, without that debt they could compete with mezeron with out a problem.

And you can bet mezeron knew full well that the SP could not drop the prices and whos fault is that, not mezerons but the SP.

Why should we have to pay for there mistakes,

You can bet when they took that loan out to buy the company they made it look like they had the whole market and it was a cash cow, and the banks fell right for it.

Its a bit like buying a house and putting all your overtime payments as your full income, the bank think o thats all right they make a lot,

Then suddanly you lose all your overtime,

should we feel sorry for you, or should we just think well its your own fault for wanting more thanu could afford.

Look at the acconts and tell me that there is not a viable route even with mezeron working, if you take out the div that are taken out the company is still in profit, remember 20 odd million a year in div, they have bled the sp dry every year, and they have bleed the isle of man people dry.

That is the fault of the SP and noboody eles

further pub gossip was that steam pkt actually shipped the crane over for them (obviously not knowing of its usage)irony is a darned thang,but

That is true, and yes the SP did not know who it was for as it was booked on by a diffrent company,

How are Graylaw not getting slagged off as the instigator of this turmoil ?

they are sitting back and letting the shipping companies carry the can

cant see its graylaws fault.

mezeron did not have to ship to douglas, they diden have to do anything graylaw wanted,

they seen an opeing and they took it.

and the reason because they are 150% cheaper than the SP on the things i need to bring in and ship out. yes a 150%, belive it.

 

 

having a bit of a problem with that figure

 

(eg.)

£1000 - 150% means they pay you £500 to carry your freight ?

 

sorry, but I don't quite

belive it

 

..... back to the drawing board

well you would think that. fools and a job half worked out

but as the things i ship, have to come on there own trailer from the UK if i use the SP, i have to pay for the trailer both ways, so 2k 150% £500.

should maybe have stated that, but there we go

New to this and don't know how to quote...so

Gazza, reduce staff and unload more slowly - that will be your local redundancies then! Same with reducing working days/hours in the winter.

 

Sean, the User Agreement committed the SP to buy a replacement fast craft - presumbably because it looks good for the tourist market, smart, sexy, faster crossing times etc. - everyone hated the Ben when she first arrived so presumably the forum would be full of complaints if they'd bought another one anyway.

If there has to be redundancies there has to be, We dont have a given right to a job, yes it may well be a loss but that is the way the world works.

I think you find the ben improved once they stuck some more ballast in the bottem of it!!!!

 

I'm still interested to know how much profit Mezeron are making and why no one on the forum seem to realise that they are not some saviour on the horizon but purely a company out to make a quick buck. You don't seem to mind that - it must be because their name doesn't include the words Steam Packet.

 

At least with the SP, you know the User Agreement forces them to be committed to the IOM routes, certain levels of service, investment in new vessels, etc, etc. Like the Ben and Mannanan or not, they are an improvement over the old side loaders, the "no sick bags on outside decks, it's easier just to hose them down once in Douglas" days!!

how do you work out there here just to make a quick buck,

i have shipped with mezeron for over 6 years been picking stuff up for others for around 10 years, and the reason because they are 150% cheaper than the SP on the things i need to bring in and ship out. yes a 150%, belive it.

so this quick buck you are thinking there are here for i think you could be vary vary wrong. because they been here a while so your a bit wrong on that. or have i missed something