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manxman1980

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Posts posted by manxman1980

  1. 1 hour ago, Holte End said:

    Liverpool FC..Has any team been so lucky ever. 

    Well yes, the mighty lions have been the luckiest team this season, we really don't deserve to be fourth as we have played so badly at times it's been unbelievable. The poorest Man U team ever  thrashed us, we then go on to beat the best teams Man City and Arsenal at home, Man City at home we played well, but both Arsenal games we were just lucky, as we were clearly not on their level. Monday night Liverpool showed what a poor team going forward we are and what we lacked in defence, but just got lucky, may the luck be with us next season. But the best of the season was the appointment of Wayne Rooney as manager at City, what an inspired signing.

    "To be honest with you, I watched Aston Villa and I can't believe the scoreline. Honestly Aston Villa played fantastic football and just lost to bad goals.  Newcastle are going to be very difficult to beat, in their own ground in particular, and their manager has done a great job there. It's a surprising game, football. You can play teams off the pitch and not score - that's what Aston Villa did."

    Sir Alex Ferguson after Villa lost to Newcastle.  You may claim they have been lucky but Ferguson saw that they were a good team early in the season.

  2. 8 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

    We are going over old ground here again but you really don’t get it 

    It is you that is going over old ground.

    I was responding to a comment by a "remainer" and explaining why you and others don't care about the negative impact that Brexit has had.

    I was genuinely surprised that you hadn't already brought up that argument. 

  3. 2 minutes ago, RecklessAbandon said:

    I have no need to chill, but Brexiteers need to take some personal responsibility for their actions.

    They won't though because they are stuck in the denial stage of grief for their Brexit dreams.

    I am surprised that the issue of 'sovereignty' has not raised it's head yet as this "prize" is worth paying anything for in the minds of certain people.  

    • Sad 1
  4. 2 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

    The UK makes it’s laws under the rules it has set itself, not by a third party.

    Except where it enters into Trade Agreements and has to accept outside influence on UK rules in order to be able to have a trade agreement.  I know you will argue that this is a decision made by the democratically elected UK Government but the country is now in a weaker negotiating position now and therefore will have to make more concessions. 

    Essentially Brexit has positioned the UK to take a shafting from the countries that it wants to trade with.

    2 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

    The current parlous state of the Tory party has no bearing on the issue of self determination. Within and without the EU many governing parties are in a similar position 

    The state of the Tory party is, however, inextricably linked with Brexit.  It was the subject of EU membership that was the cause of much strife and internal division over many years.  It was this that led to Farage and others forming UKIP and applying pressure to the Conservative party.  That in turn led to Cameron giving in to the Euro sceptics in the Tory party and holding the referendum.  Up until that point the a small minority of typically Conservative voters and right wing nuts were voting UKIP which threatened the Tory party with losing power.  There was no way that a party like UKIP would ever win a majority in Parliament.

    Since then the Tory party has fragmented further over what Brexit should look like, how hard or soft it should be, and now UKIP has rebranded to Reform and is still forcing some Tory MP's into more extremes.

    2 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

    The fact that the last two Prime Ministers have never led their  party in a General Election is neither here nor there.There is no obligation for them to have done so. No doubt this situation has happened, and could happen, in other countries.

    You are correct that there is no requirement for them to do so but those two PM's have also brought about significant alterations to their parties pledges but continued to claim that they had a democratic mandate for them.  That is absolute nonsense as the public have not had the opportunity to vote on these new policies.  

    I am afraid that these PM's cannot have it both ways. 

    2 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

    Yes two democratically Tory MP’s have defected to Labour recently as is their prerogative. I’m not sure where you are going with this, particularly in relation to Brexit.

    Merely to point out that they stood for election on a Conservative Manifesto but have now abandoned that to sign up for a Labour position that opposes much of what was in the Conservative Manifesto.  Ironically the latest defection highlights this as even Labour MP's have questioned how she can do a 180 on her position in relation to immigration to then join the party she has been criticising endlessly.  

    True democracy would have resulted in both standing down as MP's and byelections taking place. 

    2 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

    Giving individuals peerages to enable them to accede to, or remain in a post, however undesirable it may be thought is a procedure formulated by the UK itself not forced upon it by a collection of other countries.

    Yes, again, whilst it may be legally allowable under UK law it does make a mockery out of the argument about not wanting to be ruled by "unelected elites" or "unelected bureaucrats".  One of those unelected Lords, by the way, not only had a huge role in this current mess but also has unanswered questions about their links to China...

    How do you feel about the UK falling under Chinese influence?

    2 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

    So no mockery made.

    The state of democracy in the UK is an absolute joke.  

    • Thanks 1
  5. 8 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

    OK if you’re only giving one option.

    ” Should the UK remain or leave the EU, based on the UK having its own domestic laws determined by a democratically elected UK Parliament, taking precedence over an unelected body in Strasbourg or Brussels?”

    But there’s plenty of other things to consider.

    Yes as the holder of a Manx  ( UK) passport holder it was great to go through and visit  the EU countries almost seamlessly. But not at the expense of surrendering sovereignty ( “ ever closer union”)

    I love visiting Europe. It’s got a lot to offer. And Europeans seem to love visiting. the UK. I think we have a good relationship. We don’t need to morph into one big superstate. As I have said before “ Vive la difference” Let’s celebrate that.

     

    6 hours ago, woolley said:

    That's all there is to it.

    I will remind you both that the last two Prime Ministers in the UK have never led their party in a General Election. 

    Liz Truss keeps babbling about the "blob".  Apparently a shadowy group who are not democratically elected who really control the UK Parliament (post Brexit!).

    The current PM is clinging to power and delaying a general election despite the fact that his Government and party is a complete shambles and in the last two weeks two Conservative MPs have defected to Labour.

    The current Home Secretary isn't an MP at all and hasn't been for many years.  Instead they were given a peerage to enable them to take up the post.

    There was also Zach Goldsmith who was given a peerage so he could remain in his post as Minister of State despite not being an elected MP.

    Rather makes a mockery of the notion that the UK is having its laws determined by a democratically elected Government doesn't it?

  6. 7 hours ago, P.K. said:

    The Israeli government is not against peace. That's ridiculous. They are against giving anyone the idea that Hamas could attack Israel, brutally murder over a thousand Israeli citizens, take several hundred hostage - and then force a ceasefire i.e. get away with it...

    I think the Israeli Government have well and truly made that point.  The latest military action in Rafah has left the Israeli Government being criticised by many of its allies.

    That rather suggests that these other nations now also think the Israeli Government have made their point.

    7 hours ago, P.K. said:

    I suppose you mean do I think any hostages are still alive? With no evidence to say they have all perished then you have to hope and act as if there are still some to save. The IDF have no other option.

    Strange thing to ask. Why so...?

    You suppose?   I directly asked you that question. 

    Why?  The Israeli Government said at the start that they were targeting action in Gaza to recover the hostages. 

    Since then we have heard from the hostages that were released that several of the remaining hostages were wounded and not receiving effective treatment,  the IDF shot Israeli nationals who were waving white flags and speaking Hebrew, and most of Gaza has been flattened.

    There have also been requests from the families of the hostages to stop the military action in Gaza.

    I ask the question because it seems that the Israeli Government gave up any rescue attempts long ago in favour of trying to wipe out Hamas.  As a result they probably condemned any remaining hostages to death one way or another. 

  7. 3 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

    OK , Perhaps I could ask you to draft  the referendum question that you would have liked to have been asked which encompasses all the range of opinions and options that you and Reckless Abandon have referred to. For example in respect of the WTO, Switzerland model, Single Market, Freedom of Movement etc etc , and all the permutations thereof. Oh and include one for me please. about ending the supremacy of EU law or not.

    I look forward to reading it!

    Doesn't that just highlight the point we were making?  The ideal question would have been "Should the UK remain in the EU or leave based on << Insert one realistic and deliverable option>>

    2 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

    OK what size majority vote would you suggest? 
    75% is oft quoted but that was not achieved  in the 1975 referendum. A simple majority was all that was required  for continued membership of the EEC

    I would have gone for 60% majority.  That gets you a clear difference between both options.

    2 hours ago, woolley said:

    And to think that the UK was taken into the EEC/EU with no referendum at all. Even worse!

    Presumably the elected Governments of the time made these big decisions on behalf of the electorate?

  8. 6 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

    I beg to differ.

    And what about the rest of the points or are you just going to ignore the fact that the question was oversimplified and that there was a broad variety of opinions on what leaving would actually look like? 

  9. 1 hour ago, P.K. said:

    Also It's pretty certain that any remaining Israeli hostages will be in the area as it's pretty unlikely they will be anywhere else. 

    Do you really believe that any of the hostages are still alive?  Between Hamas and the IDF I would imagine most have been executed, died of injuries or killed by the IDF as casualties of their campaign. 

    I think that this has been one of the sticking points with any ceasefire.  The Israeli Government have demanded that Hamas hand over live hostages and quite simply Hamas cannot comply with that requirement.  

  10. 1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said:

    This one:-

    The referendum question was: Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union? 
     

    Quite clear I would have thought. And the result was equally clear.

    Muddying the waters yet again...

    52% to 48% whilst a majority vote is not a clear result and in many other referendums would not have met the criteria to make such a big decision.  The closeness of that result is what led to the impasse in Parliament, all the legal challenges and ultimately to the years of Political chaos that the UK has seen since and has left the country, rather ironically, with the last two PM's having never taken their party to a General Election having been voted for by either the members of the Conservative Party or Conservative MP's.  We can all see that the current PM is desperately trying to delay a General Election to extend his stay in the top job or in the vague hope of the Tories finding a miracle.  

    The problem with the actual question is that is massively oversimplifies the issue and during the campaigns leading up to that vote there was no clarity about what leaving actually would look like.  As @RecklessAbandon has highlighted many on the leave side were not in agreement about what leaving actually looked like.  This again led to much of the arguments immediately after the referendum and Parliament spending time arguing over what the result actually meant. 

    The whole referendum was a debacle but I suppose it helps some people sleep to think that the UK is now free from unelected bureaucrats and "red tape"... erm... hang on...

     

  11. 3 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

    Quite an entertaining scoreline from last night. 

    Amusing that in three games this season Liverpool could not get a win against United.

    Unfortunately last night is just another example of the poor recruitment decisions that have been made and the general malaise that has been allowed to settle in at United.  It also looks like the players have downed tools again.  I would suggest that now would be an opportunity to let some of the talent young players gain some experience, however, the downside is that it could be toxic though.

  12. 5 hours ago, Declan said:

    You're doing what you always. You said "they only lost to teams like Sevilla" when it was mostly City and Real. That's all I was saying.

    You make a false statement, get shown it's wrong then respond as if I was reponding to completely different point. We can't have a serious discussion because you just view find one little bit in a post and go "yeah but", irrespective of the context in the thread or the post.

    The Sevilla reference was because that is a team most Liverpool fans think they should be able to beat without an issue.  I remember that final because I shared an office with a scouser who stuck up a poster before the game with something like "Liverpool on tour in Europe" and was going on and on about how they would win that final and bring in a new era of trophies...

    The point about losing by a point to City is just nonsense.   That's why I referenced United losing the title to Blackburn.  I could also have referenced finishing second to City in the Premier League on the last day.

    It doesn't matter what your points total was if you only finish second.  You were not as good or as consistent as the team that finished first.

    You cannot just wish City away and say "look what we would have won".

  13. 12 hours ago, Declan said:

    We were denied two League titles by Man City by a single point and gained more points both season than United had. A team with the resources of a petro-state and the most successful manager of the current era, who would have won 6 or 7 titles in a row but for us

    And if it wasn't for Blackburn and Arsenal then United would have won 12 league titles in a row...

    These arguments are stupid though.  Blackburn and Arsenal won those titles.

    Liverpool lost out to City etc but that's the way football works. 

  14. 6 hours ago, majkul said:

    Even as a United fan, I have to agree with Teapot. L'pool are in much a better place than United (and MUCH better than what Sir Alex left United in 2013 - BeeJeezus, have we been mostly shite for 11 years already???). Do I laugh at their "demise" in the past few months? Of course I do, the whole world laughs at us near enough every week, it's part of football rivalry. But I do look at them with a bit of envy of where they are in general, and where Klopp is leaving them. As much as it pains me, and as much as I hope I'm wrong, I think they're set up to win the league title again before us.

    You can't be a United fan if you envy Liverpool...  

    They may be in a better place than United were when Ferguson left but only because the squad is younger.  They still need to replace Salah and Van Djik.

    United's problem was that they really needed Mourinho or Van Gaal to follow Ferguson.  They were managers who would have commanded respect from an ageing team that had just won a league title.  They could have safely dismantled and rejuvenated the squad.

    Moyes wasn't the right person to do that.  He didn't have the ability to attract new signings and he struggled to impose himself on a squad full of experienced winners.

    Ferdinand said it recently that Moyes seemed to think that United was like Everton and not understand that the standards were higher.

    Moyes isn't to blame for the decline but the club didn't get the right person at the right time.

    Liverpool could find themselves in the same place with a relatively unproven manager.  Albeit the club is probably set up better to handle the transition than United were.

    Another factor with Liverpool is that they really should have won more under Klopp than they did.  The fact they fell short amuses me especially when it was teams like Sevilla that were denying them trophies.

  15. 10 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

    I fail to see why a Manchester United fan feels emboldened enough to hand out shit. Your club is mostly a mess. There is no plan. They've had another shit season, played absolute dross for much of it, and are almost certainly going to lose another FA Cup final to City and finish 6th. Shut the fuck up.

    Did I hit a nerve? 

    You are right, our season has been shocking and in all probability we will lose the FA Cup final to City.

    Despite that we still knocked Liverpool out of the FA Cup and drew with the both home and away in the league.

    In two of those three games this season United even had a player sent off.

    Even at our worst in years United can still upset Liverpool fans.

  16. 16 hours ago, Passing Time said:

    :whistling:

    Well, you can keep living in the past if you want.  The reality is that Liverpool are currently the third best team in England and were knocked out of Europe by the team currently sat in sixth place in Serie A.  

    Arsenal meanwhile are sat in first place and locked in a title battle with Manchester City.  That is the same Manchester City who you suggest Liverpool cannot compete with due to their state funding.  Arsenal, of course, are also not beneficiaries of state funding.  

    I would suggest that you be pleased with 3rd place, qualifying for the Champions League and winning a trophy.  Just stop pretending that Liverpool are the best team in the country at present. 

    • Like 1
  17. 13 minutes ago, Passing Time said:

    You're getting as bad as Crazy Dave. Currently maybe but overall not

    Come on...  Nottingham Forrest have won more European Cup's than Arsenal.  Does that make them a better team than the current Arsenal side?

     

    And interesting to see which trophies you included in your reference to Liverpool.  That would be a total of 67 trophies.  Guess which other team has 67 trophies including the ones you did?

  18. 18 minutes ago, Passing Time said:

    Arsenal has won 13 league titles (including one unbeaten title), a record 14 FA Cups, two League Cups, 17 FA Community Shields and a Football League Centenary Trophy

    Liverpool have won 1 FIFA Club World Cup title, 6 European Cups (an English club record), 4 UEFA Super Cups, 3 UEFA Cups , 19 League titles (including 1 Premier League title), 7 Men's FA Cups, a record 10 EFL Cups and 16 FA Community Shields

    Anything to add?

    And there we have it...  a return to normal service from a Liverpool fan.  Quoting history instead of paying attention to what is happening today.  

    Arsenal finished above Liverpool last season and could end this season as League Champions.  Even if they finish second they will once again be above Liverpool in the table making them the better team currently.

  19. 1 hour ago, Declan said:

    I agree, a point or two at the end of the season can be down to good or bad fortune, but we were well behind last season. We've closed the gap this season, and I see it as plus point that we kept the challenge alive going into April. But even before the current blip, they were winning by two or three goals and we were coming from behind to win.

    Wow!  A Liverpool fan with some sense! 🤣

  20. 25 minutes ago, Passing Time said:

    as long as he's better than Ten Hag we should be fine...

    Ten Hag had more success in the Netherlands as a manager than Slot.  Sure they managed different teams but why did Ajax not look at him?  Why did Chelsea and Tottenham both decided against Slot?

  21. 1 hour ago, Declan said:

    Spanish managers before Benítez? French before Wenger? Germans before Klopp? Portuguese before Mourinho?

    I did kind of share your concern, but I think I was guilty of stereotype thinking. 

    So you think Slot is comparable to Wenger, Klopp or Mourinho?

    I might accept Benitez as a comparison in that he will be popular with Liverpool fans but will not deliver anything beyond cup success.  Benitez has not been a success in England though as he took Everton backwards although I am sure Liverpool fans will see that as a "success".  

    Wenger is an interesting case as well.  I think everyone recognises that he revived Arsenal and had some great teams, however, he won the Premier League 3 times and the FA Cup seven times.  Does that really qualify him as one of the best managers seen in the Premier League or even the English top flight before the Premier League?

    If I was a Liverpool fan I would be genuinely concerned about how this season is finishing and whether your new manager will really be the success you all think.

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