jackwhite

Ah sorry for going off topic, it never happens on Manx forums.

Yeah but the Douglas one didn’t have any gelato early Saturday but crack on without understanding.

The last question was rhetorical.

So Rob has zero in it? I doubt that. Or is it Rob, in conjunction with his backer? Or does it actually matter?

He better up his game, as he had no ice cream when we went early Saturday!

So you haven’t been in the industry for 20 years but are perfectly placed to comment? Like many industries, hospitality is vastly different from 20 years ago. I don’t believe you had a hospitality business 20 years ago. Regardles, what is evident is that you have zero idea about the realities of running one currently.

Pity you didn't know, you could maybe have stopped playing backseat driver and actually run a hospitality business, since you seem to know so much about doing it successfully. It's Rob Storey. Odin and The Traf. I'd alluded to this closing in previous posts. Hopefully it's the rocket up the backside Government needs to actually do something about hospitality. Otherwise this is going to become a regular occurrence and you'll be left with nowhere to go.

My point is, the government are quite happy pushing wages up for example, as it means much more money in their pocket. Substantially more than the employee earns. If they increased the tax threshold for minimum wage earners, they'd get to keep much more of their money and employers NI would come down. Currently it's going to cost the employer more, with a double edged sword. A minimum wage earner will be paying the top rate of tax. That seems right to you?

You do realise new places will always open up, regardless of the economy? You sure you don't work for Government, as one prominent member more or less said that, word for word. It's either people with money (or that of a relation) or someone who's literally saved every penny they can. Like many on here, they think they'll somehow be able to navigate the difficult economy and turn a profit. So, reading the comments on here, have these good business people suddenly become bad ones? From what I understand, some people who've been here years are ready to pack up as it's gotten so difficult. Other places that, on the face of it, seem to be doing well, lost money over the winter. One told that to everyone at the initial meeting. It's more serious than most on here think and what they are primarily asking for is help to keep more money in their pockets and that of their employees. However, what is happening is that more and more is pouring into the coffers of the Government, whether that be through utilities, licensing costs, VAT or employee taxes. As wages go up, this will only increase. The estimate overall is that for everything sold by these people, around 40-50% of it is finding the way into the pockets of the Government, by way of the various things mentioned above. When places decide enough is enough, wait and see the self same people complaining that there isn't anywhere on island decent for them to eat or drink out.

They can’t afford to! There is a double cost to do this with increased NI. Part of the proposals are some form of tax relief for these employees so they have more in their pocket. As it stands, if the minimum wage proposals go though, they will be in the highest tax bracket. Of course that means even more income for the government.

It’s owned by an Irishman tbf. Same owner as Copper Still (formerly known as Seven Kingdoms - to be clear, nothing to do with previous owners or managers of SK).

Yes, I understand what it is and how it works. However you're still giving away the VAT, regardless. So if you buy something and normally price it at 50% margin, you're not going to maintain a 50% margin, after VAT, by reducing it!

So a business that's already struggling should drop their prices, and they'll still get the same margin and make more profit? Again, it's not help for hospitality only, it's for everyone that's subject to VAT and wage struggles. Should I repeat it.....it's not for hospitality only.

You're not being asked to prop up anything. Firstly, Manx Care has had 350 new nurses in the not too distant past, according to Cannan tonight. Could they be doing with more? Probably. Most hospitality businesses are struggling, they won't be 'pocketing' anything. They'll be doing their best to keep businesses going and giving these 'nurses for Manx Care' somewhere to go when they get here, if they get any more. If you've no hospitality businesses or little in the way of them, do you think those nurses are going to be desperate to move here in the first place or stay long? I think we all know that total abolishment of VAT is not something likely to happen. It wasn't actually the rhetoric that was given in the LVA meeting originally. However a couple of businesses sidelined the issue and then insisted on a full VAT abolishment to be the proposal. Bizarrely, of the two leading the call, neither were actually licensed businesses. But that's a minor point, as I said the initiatives are to help everyone, not just the licensed sector.

It's a big if, but if the proposals they want were actioned, then most would, I hazard a guess from the meeting I was at, do ok. At the moment they are struggling, so any relief for them would be welcome. The real concern is if and when the new minimum wage is introduced. That will, again from what I can gather, cripple most of them.

I don't know how many times I have to say this, the proposals put forward are not just for hospitality. They would extend to every industry. As has been pointed out to you already, no one is saying they will be passing any savings onto the customers. Why would a hospitality business, which is already struggling, if it got help, then give it away immediately? Even if you say there's increased footfall because the price is cheaper (and that's unlikely) then they wouldn't really gain out of it.

It’s a ‘cave in’ to meet with hospitality? What do you think they should do? Burying their heads in the sand isn’t the answer. They’ve been very defensive in the roadshows so far, from what I hear.

There’s a meeting between the LVA and government next week, from what I’ve heard.

So you think the brewery were doing us a favour?

Curious on this. You don’t like them because they know there will be road closures and are still there, or something else?

So you keep saying, but your own seems to be based on AI. You seem to be writing them off on the basis that you don't agree with their statement on VAT. You're also becoming ridiculously entrenched. When I asked for an explanation from you, you then made a post to the extent, when called upon, that we on the board wouldn't understand, as if you are somehow of superior intellect to everyone on here. Can AI teach you to be more open minded or do you need a few prompts for that?

Yes, it was discussed at length. Yes, again it was discussed. They told the LVA their reasons when asked. Well they are a well loved business on the Isle of Man. They have decent staff. It's still a worry if a business like this is losing money. Who are we talking about here? All of this is very anecdotal. At least, on attending the meeting I did, it wasn't. It was widespread across the industry. Including one operator that particularly surprised, me, as I've mentioned several times now. Many of these owners and managers have been in the trade for many years and managed to make a living out of it. It's got tighter now, to the extent that many aren't. Have they suddenly become 'clueless'? With the various taxes, a lot were estimating they are going to be paying around 70% of their income to government. The new minimum wage cap, if pushed through, will put those on minimum wage into the highest tax bracket. If you read the statement made by the LVA, they're not asking for 'bailing out', they're asking to keep more of the money they earn and let their staff do likewise, by looking at things the Government can do. If they all take the attitude of some on here, they will all shut up shop. See how the island fares at that point when there's nowhere to go out to eat, drink or whatever other leisure pursuit you want to partake in. If you think people don't want to come or stay here now, it will be a drop in the ocean if that situation comes to pass.

There are some places which are busy that are losing money. It was said by the owner in the meeting. I'm not sure whether that's to become common knowledge, so won't reveal the names. If you want another more obvious one, the Tea Junction is busy, yet it's still going to close down.

Can you prove this in any way whatsoever or are you just guessing? You are in the camp of 'hospitality shouldn't be helped as it's all their own fault', going by your posts. So nothing anyone says on here is going to change your mind. You were comparing a night in to a night out earlier in the thread. So do you have anything to back this up, other than nonsensical comparisons and guesswork?

I didn't invent the scheme nor do I think it necessary, so you're asking the wrong person. It is a 5/6 hour course. Cover subjects such as drugs and things not specifically written into the scheme but that you would be expected to do, use of the incident book for example. There are things in there which I'm not sure are completely necessary either. What I was doing is simply pointing out why it's a qualification applicable to Manx legislation rather than a competency certificate. It's probably very much designed that way for that reason.