manxman1980 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 A questionnaire which is fairly useless at detecting risk of self-harm because it assumes people are going to answer the questions honestly. I think most people with any common sense know better than to say something which will end up getting them sectioned under the Mental Health Act. Which is why self-awareness comes into it. If you think you may have a mental health problem and present yourself to a gp then you are more likely to be honest because you have taken a decision to seek help. If you cannot recognise that your behavior has changed or realise the voices in your head are telling you to do something out of the ordinary then you are unlikely to present yourself to a gp. As Wrighty has said a person in that situation is going to be more vulnerable. Also I was posing a question about what sort of diagnostic tests are used. I have no insight into how they actually assessed risk in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
integrity Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 No way a single PC being wiped would remove all evidence in the medical system...100% complete and utter FACT. Also, wiped to a none IT person is deleting or maybe formatting the drive, this is NOT wiped, there are several readily available tools online to recover against both these. Wiped is a very time consuming procedure involving writing new data over the drive repeatedly, think of it like writing a word, then scribbling over it, up and down, left and right, round and round until there is no trace of the word. Basically, nobody in the investigation wanted to see it for obvious reasons, because then somebody would be accountable, not a department, a person.....and the Government don't do that. I am not judging the person(s) involved, the role is very difficult in itself and we are only human, I think the way they have released this information however is inflammatory and undermines the public's view of the way the Government operates. The Goverment repeatedly speak the mantra that they will seek to "protect the most vunerable in our society" This young man was certainly in that catergory. He died in a government facility surrounded by government employees, paid out of the public purse to protect him. What is the Minister going to do about it? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Fuck all. Unless just words counts as doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisenchuk Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 Was Anderson the minister then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo65 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 With respect to the "wiped" record, I quote the judgement below. Its clear that this was not a clinical record, but related to refurbishment of the unit several years (2004/5) before the incident. It seems likely that this was wiped at some stage in the past because it was thought to be unnecessary rather than in relation to the inquest 106. Bearing in mind that this was Government work and the need to safeguard public funds, I was surprised at the lack of a paper trail regarding the design and implementation of the work. I do note that in his written statement Mr Harrington referred to the UK NHS Health Building Notes which informed the design brief. In paragraph 3.63 it indicated that curtain rails should be low weight bearing. I also note a letter of March 2004 from Mr Kelly to the building control department regarding the need to use fittings and fixtures which eliminated the risk of self-harm in terms of ligature points and specifically sought approval for a waiver in respect of automatic door closures on bedroom doors. I also note that yesterday some plans of the conversion work had been forthcoming but those did not provide detailed schedules regarding the nature and type of fixtures and fittings to be used. The lack of backing up of a computer which contained vital plans and documents regarding Grianagh Court and then ISD taking the computer and wiping it did not fill me with confidence that record keeping had been a strong point for Estates. It also made me question whether proper systems had been in place within Estates to ensure that important but perhaps discrete parts of the refurbishment work were checked to see whether they were completed in the manner expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
integrity Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Was Anderson the minister then? Yes he was the Minister at the time, which leads me to a further and extremley disturbing factor in this case and that is the length of time this has taken to be brought in to the public domain. This young man took his own life on the 12th JUNE 2012! It has taken over two years to be made public and given the family some form of closure of this dreadfully sad incident. What on earth have the authorities been doing over all this time? I find this totally unacceptable both as an individual and a member of what is general a caring society in the Isle of Man. Our public servants are not serving us well or giving our Island the sought of reputation we deserve. . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisenchuk Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 A non collapsible shower rail in such a facility is no less forgivable either. Where did they draw their safety policy and procedure from? ETA: it also states that because Mr Hall had insight into his own condition he was deemed not be at risk of suicide. What mental health worker in their right mind could make that monumental error of thinking? More than likely someone qualified to do so. How come all these experts on here are not running some sort of utopia where everyone and everything is perfect ? This is a rather cockeyed defense to offer under the circumstances and according to the court findings and news reports. Qualifications count for absolutely nothing if the qualified fail to implement basic safety policy and procedure. For the record I do have past experience of working in units where vulnerable/high risk clients safety and well being had to be constantly at the forefront of policy and strategies. Basic stuff like non collapsible ligature fixtures was regarded as common knowledge at least as far back as 2003. Oh, you must be right then and those actually doing the jobs are wrong. Why didn't I think of that ? I fail to understand why you're so keen to defend the failings here. Your stance may be different if the deceased was closely related to you. This isn't a case of someone not being perfect,it is as the Coroners report says a catalogue of systemic failure in an acute care environment. Can I refer you to post No. 55 ? Can I offer the Chief Minister's latest comments regarding mental health service standards on the island( listen to Bell's comments in the attached audio clip) From Manx Radio News: Mental health services 'abysmal', say chief minister and MHK Published online at 22/10/2014 17:15:08 The Isle of Man's approach to mental health services have been branded 'abysmal' by the chief minister, and another MHK. Allan Bell's comments came as Tynwald debated the chief constable's annual report, in tandem with a motion about police budgets put forward by North Douglas MHK John Houghton. Mr Houghton echoed his comments on mental health. Mr Bell told Tynwald much more needed to be done: Listen To Related Audio Clip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buster Lewin Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 At least Alan Bell has admitted Mental Health Care is abysmal, then with respect I would ask him to ensure that the Public Inquiry that Juan Watterson is now going to carry, it is an overarching Inquiry that includes the Prison, in order to ascertain why people with mental health illness are regulary being put in Prison, where there is no adequate specialist mental health treatment available to the person. Not to put words in the Chief Ministers mouth, he may describe the operation of the Prison as being "inhuman and degrading". But that would be for an Independent Public Inquiry with an independent Chairman from the UK so no stone is left unturned to conclude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) 'It is ironic that persons in whom the evolutionary processes of Nature have begun to operate more rapidly, and who can be considered as advanced mutants of the human race, are institutionalized as subnormal by their 'normal' peers. I dare to guess, on the basis of discussion with my psychiatrist-friends, that this process is not as exotic and rare as one would like us to believe, and possibly 25 to 30 per cent of all institutionalized schizophrenics belong to this category -- a tremendous waste of human potential. The reason for this is that they have been catapulted suddenly into a situation in which they are functioning in more than one reality. They can see and hear things occuring in our neighbouring realities, that is the astral or other higher realities, because their 'frequency responses' has been broadened ... The onslught of information may be overwhelming, and they begin to mix and confuse two or three realities.' - Itzhak Bentov Edited October 29, 2014 by Thomas Jefferson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 'It is ironic that persons in whom the evolutionary processes of Nature have begun to operate more rapidly, and who can be considered as advanced mutants of the human race, are institutionalized as subnormal by their 'normal' peers. I dare to guess, on the basis of discussion with my psychiatrist-friends, that this process is not as exotic and rare as one would like us to believe, and possibly 25 to 30 per cent of all institutionalized schizophrenics belong to this category -- a tremendous waste of human potential. The reason for this is that they have been catapulted suddenly into a situation in which they are functioning in more than one reality. They can see and hear things occuring in our neighbouring realities, that is the astral or other higher realities, because their 'frequency responses' has been broadened ... The onslught of information may be overwhelming, and they begin to mix and confuse two or three realities.' - Itzhak Bentov Well that sums you up well. Nutter ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 'It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.' Jiddu Krishnamurti 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 'It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.' Jiddu Krishnamurti "Better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are stupid, than open it and prove that you are"....Dilligaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 My mouth was closed when I typed that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisenchuk Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 'It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.' Jiddu Krishnamurti "Better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are stupid, than open it and prove that you are"....Dilligaf Actually Dilligaf,TJ's quote raises a highly valid point. If we have such a wonderful and advanced society then how come we have such high incidences of mental illness resulting from it? I'd say the wiser option is to open your eyes and broaden the thinking as to the pros and cons of a highly competitive,materialistic and often exclusive society and it's damaging effects on those living in it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannin1 Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Lightening does indeed strike twice allegedly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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