ScotsAlan

Goodness me, you are an energetic poster PaulD. But Tibet in an interesting issue. The west say the Dalai Lama should be in charge. Why? Because some old guy in a robe had a dream about him when he was a baby. Great way to choose a leader I actually tend to agree with China on this one. If he was a real leader he would cross the border. But is that likely to happen? Nop.

Chinahand, I am lucky in that I am able to socialise and work with ordinary Chinese. I am not an investor or a manager. Just an ordinary Engineer, fortunate to work in a company that has genuine grass roots international teams. I went to Beijing last Christmas with my wife, and I hated it. It is just as you say in your post. Oppressive and grey. Police everywhere and even a swat team parked outside of our budget hotel. But China is a big country... as big if not bigger than western Europe. And that's easily forgotten. So you should not be quoting facts and figures about individual countries such as Zimbabwe...why not quote facts and figures about Europe... Persecution of Romaneys in eastern Europe for example. The UK press and it's attack on Polish immigration to the UK. The emerging right wing in France.. Met police taking bribes from the news of the world...need I go on? The biggest fear in China for ordinary people is the lack of free healthcare. They don't care what the CPC say or do. The people in the street laugh at them and their inept propaganda. They actually openly mock them. But they fear sickness. And their lives revolve around that. Cant pay? Ok... go away and die. So China has the same major injustice on human life as the USA. That makes me feel lucky to be a European. I was in China when Liu Xiaobo was awarded his Nobel peace prize. I posted a photo of an empty chair on my Facebook page. Not personally of course because the internet was shut down that weekend. Even Freegate did not work. But that night I still got an email out with a photo of an empty chair that I had downloaded in China, and someone in the Middle East posted it for me. I had to do that. So yup, perhaps I am a monster. But I don't choose to have a propaganda photo of the greatest mass murderer of the 20th century as my avatar. I can hear sirens in the distance now :-o Edit to add. Posted from China, apparently the most oppressed country in the world, via Google Chrome with no proxy. So sorry for the forthcoming crash Admin. Not my fault, Chinahand started it......

Hi Chinahand. I am in China as I post this. And my Chinese boss has never forced his idea of "Harmonious Society" on me. Nor has my mother in law (a very minor neighbourhood government official), or anyone else for that matter. The ordinary Chinese people I know are no longer the brainwashed drones of the Mao era. That was a long time ago. Six years ago when I started visiting China there were a few portraits of Chairman Mao hanging in shops and offices etc. But there are practically none now. I see his portrait more in Manx Forums alongside your posts than I see it in China. Smoking?.... banned from May this year, but not enforced. I have never had to bribe anyone to light up. Unless you consider it a bribe to offer a security guard a ciggarette as you sit in his guard house smoking. What would happen if I lit up in a Manx pub.... even if I was the only person in the place? Dog ownership..... certainly not tightly controlled where I am. I know lots of people with dogs. Maybe they are tightly controlled in Shanghai, but are they not restricted to certain areas in Douglas? I am definately not shrugging my shoulders and ignoring things. I just have an open mind. Does that make me monstrous? Is it not monstrous that western bombs are killing people in Libya because their political beliefs don't match with what western leaders say they should believe? Yup, political freedom is an issue, but can you really say that the Isle of Man is a true democracy? I still maintain that the ordinary Chinese person has more personal freedom than people in the west. Freedom.... with Chinese characteristics of course. It just depends on what you define personal freedom to be :-) Hits "post" and awaits the sirens......

Yup Evil Goblin. You are spot on. They have the smoking ban, but they cleverly ommitted to put any punishments in place for people who choose to ignore it. I ignore it. Unless there are pregnant women or kids about of course.

Yes, it's oppressive. But it's not that much different to the UK's treatment of "Terror suspects". On a day to day basis, I think the average Chinese person probably has more personal freedom than we do in the west. I mean the small things, such as smoking in bars, letting your dog shit in the street etc. Although the CPC are trying to change that in the big cities at the moment, but most people seem to ignore them. It might be interesting if the Jiang Zemin rumours turn out to be true.....