John Wright

I cannot give out addresses but if you posted to me I would ensure they got to the corect address

Do you meen Quayle & Gilbert who used to do facilities maangement when it was called building repair and manintenance?

bumped and amended

Sorry Judy, and there was I thinking I had tried to put my point in layman's terms in plain English Don't forget I have a post graduate degree in Criminology as well. if I really wrote in lawyer speak and mixed it with sociology speak... well!

Broadly Barrie, No! The European Convention has applied to the IOM since the UK signed up in the 1950's, the individual right to Petition came, went, in the light of the Tyrer case, and was restored by Tynwald, half the time in secret. Repatriation of all but lifers or extremely violent dangerous prisoners was motivated by UK pressure, cost and human rights considerations. I am well aware of the cases you mention. They are on their own facts, or the Manx facts are different and distinguishable and given we are semi independent different considerations apply to location of detention than would apply in the UK to distance from home, here it is exile from our country, however proportionality comes into play for Newberry etc, otherwise we would have to upgrade to a maximum security status. So Human rights did apply to the decision to repatriate everyone over two years sentence, with the minor exceptions,even before we had the HRA and the proportionality argument applies to Newberry, and his rights and the rights of the others as well. There is Manx Court of Appeal case law from the early 1980's that explains how, before the HRA IOM law had to be interpreted and applied in a compliant manner wherever possible to ensure we did not breach our international treaty obligations (O'Callaghan v Teare 1981)

But it does raise a very important human rights question. it was an abuse of human rights to send IOM prisoners serving sentences longer than 2 years to the UK away from their families, visits and homes, but with the alleged additional educational and training facilities and rehabilitation facilities that there are in UK prisons However for the few with longer sentences to stay here we have had to have a new prison with higher security which unfairly affects the majority of low risk short term, or otherwise qualified for open prison, inmates and infringes their rights. How does the proportionality of the one affect and interact with the proportionality of the other? I remember when Jurby was being planned I was at a meeting of a quasi official body chaired by a deemster and with reps of all sectors of the professionals including the prison governor, probation etc, involved in the criminal justice and penal sectors, and when I asked why, Ms Crosby told me she wanted a secure playing field so that she could have teams of opposing inmates play various teams games against each other. They were all shocked when I asked if Tynwald had commissioned or conducted a review of penal policy (answer no) and that I suggested that I was of the view that if we had a proper penal policy in place there would not be inmates to staff the kitchens and make up one 11 man team, let alone a second team to play against. I can still remember back to the late 1970's and early 1980's when on a occasion there was no one resident in Victoria Road for days on end or only one or two. We now have a crime rate at lower than 1981 levels, why do we have a prison population on average about 20 times what it was then?

It is very unlikely that he will be transferred to an open prison in UK, at IOM taxpayers expense away from home and family. Just one other point, Mrs B was on a 12 month suspended sentence, was it activated? Is that why she got a concurrent sentence now? I am sure that there are proceedings, civil, in the offing against Moroney's and the barristers and maybe Ms Holt (who may have been on a performance related bonus?) The open to B2 security status is an unfortunate consequence of IOM changing policy and keeping all 2 year plus sentenced prisoners here. In the past they went to UK. Keep the toughies in and you have to increase security and that affects all inmates.

Read the appeal court judgement on sentence. It was suggested by his psychologist that his mental condition had deteriorated, however he had been doing some pretty complex things, making statements etc and the Court appears not to have accepted the suggestion. I agree it looks as if he may die in prison, given his age and claimed state of health. I was not in court, but given sentencing principles I would suggest he got a consecutive sentence as he was seen as the prime mover, his wife got concurrent as it was seen as part of her being caught up in the whole scheme of things, under his influence, and Ms Holt, who is appealing against conviction, has portrayed herself as young, inexperienced and unsupervised and taken in by someone older, more wordly, urbane and wealthy. She was going to his house for dinner and drinks and being taken out to London restaurants by him, maybe she got too close and lost objectivity, it can be difficult, perhaps she was impressed and maybe unduly influenced, after all she did not actually receive the money, it went to her employers and the barristers employed by Mr & Mrs Baines

She left her employment when charged. She may have surrendered her commission as an advocate, or just resigned her law society membership (cannot practise without being a member). Not actually sure you can surrender a commission, it is a sort of for life thing. If you are not working as an advocate and are not a member of the society you may fairly be described as a former advocate, I suppose. I suspect the next step will be disciplinary proceedings.

Mona's Isle VI, never sailed to Liverpool in service with the Steam Packet. She sailed to Heysham, rather unsuccessfully as it turned out. In fact she did not enter service with the Packet until April 1985 which was after the merger with Manx Line. Her maiden voyage was to Dublin as industrial action at Heysham made it impossible to dock there. The Mona's Isle was withdrawn in October 1985 and was replaced by the Antrim Princess, renamed Tynwald. Mona's Isle was sold to the middle east and ended her days stranded on a sandbank in the Red Sea. I understand she is still there. Regards Adrian Sweeney. Quite right, I have got my time line muddled, If any one wants a written account of what happened I have a pdf of This sorry Mess, written about the travails of the time byan ex IOMSPCo purser I can send if any one want to e-muila me with their e-mail address and a request

I think that Heysham service levels are dictated by commercial carrying logistics requirements. Much of the supermarket freight needs to come overnight for delivery to the stores and being on shelves in the morning. There is not generally much passenger denmand at that time. Passengers leaving the IOM want to go in the morning and passengers coming to the Island want to travel in the afternoon. It gives time to go somewhere from Heysham or come from somewhere to Heysham. That was always the justification for the old IOMSPCo sailing times, one each way each day, 09.00 from the Island and 11.00 to the Island. You could get on a train from Liverpool after 13.00 and get to most anywhere and you could get the early train from most anywhere, especially London, and catch an 11.00 steamer I actually do not agree that freight or passengers should be separately calculated and it should be assumed that one subsidises the other. They both pay to the upkeep and running costs. There is one ropax boat that serves both passengres and freight. The old Steam Packet model, pre 1984, was freight and passengers separated (white van men apart)and it was uneconomic, more boats and crews, and Manx Line identified this and brought them to their kneees. The last 60 years have identified that the market is only large enough for one operator. The rail operators, precursors to Sealink, stopped sailing to the IOM after WW2, attempts at competition have failed after a while, Manx Line apart, but each bout of competition has left IOMSPCo weaker and that gives us as Islanders uncertainty and fear and poorer service. Manx Line itself did not do well, Geoff Duke and Edmunson Ronagency had to be rescued by James Fishers, who sold out to Sealink, when they could no longer afford its losses, who got taken over by Sea Containers, whom negotiatedc an option to take over all the shares in IOMSPCo if certain targets were or were not met. It was tyat take over which extinguished loacl control. Since then it has been seen as an infrastructure cash cow, not a service. The user agreement is no more than an attempt at controlling a monopoly situation in those circumstances by introducing some quasi market conditions, ie virtual competition. It is imperfect and I agree needs revising. What we need is two ropax like the BMC so we have back up and they last longer. We do not need a fast craft given oil economics. We need a regulator with teeth and balls, powers and the willingness to use them. Actually If you had strict regulation there is no reason why two separate companies could not run two similar ropax, one to Heysham and one to Liverpool, with one round trip from each minimum all winter and two round trips 5 days per week in summer with other sailings to other ports. That way there would be price competition. Maybe the only way to do that would be for Government to own the vessels, the linkspans and franchise the routes, ie lease them out. Finally, even if this is a social enterprise there is still a need for profit, to invest in and improve port and ship facilities and to save up for new ones every 25 to 30 or so years, but not to pay vast dividends or interest on inflated purchase price to shareholders such as McQWuarrie

Where did Mona's Isle VI sail to before the merger? Manx Viking sailed to Heysham for Manx Line and Mona's Isle sailed to Liverpool and as it was a ro ro ship, and had no linkspan on the floating landing stage, it went into the dock behind. As the dock water was at constant level it just needed a short bridge, not a linkspan, to load and unload. it did not happen for long, I agree.

What else McQuarrie owns in infrastructure in the Brituish Isles, apart from IOMSPCo, Wightlink and Condor Also owned by them are South East Water, Birmingham Airport, Bristol Airport, M6 Toll, M1-A1 link, BBC Broadcast and Arqiva.

The ill fated ship they acquired from Malta, which did not work properly, and was effectively unseaworthy after its expensive refit worked out of the lock gated dock basin behind the floating landing stage for about a season in 1984 or 5. I forget its name, the ship that is. This was the one that, to save money on, they used Dr Corlett, a director, as well as marine architect, to do the survey and design work, and then all ended up being sued I have photos of me on either the St Seriol or St Tudno edited to add Monas Isle VI, I think, formerly Spirit of Free Enterprise III

I'm old enough to remember the proposed hovercraft service from Fleetwod in the 1960's, which did not take off due to wave height operating restrictions, even in summer, and the Stella Marina and Norwest Laird , also in the 1960's from Fleetwood, which lasted only 3 years, passengers only as well as the ManxLine/IOMSPCo competition between 1978 and 1984, that drove both to the brink of bankruptcy and resulted in a shot gun merger and the passing out of Manx shareholding and local control and eventual loss of independence of the Steam Packet. In the early part of 1984, may have been '85, the Steam Packet was on the brink, they had not issued their summer schedules, they had a duff boat, operating out of docks in Liverpool, not the landing stage, and we all faced the prospect of loss of service, damege to the TT and tourism as well as much more infrequent services. The uncertainty was not good. I want a certain service at reasonable times. The latest short lived competition has lost us morning fast craft to Liverpool all summer as well as a cut back on the Irish routes For a while in the early 1980's I had a pass for the Steam Packet. If I paid the passenger tax I could get on any boat as a fot passenger fror free. Often at weekeneds during summer I got up early, saw it was a nice day and just turned up, and had a day on board, off to Ardrossan, Belfast, Dublin, Llandudno, Fleetwood or Liverpool. I was sorting out a drawer of old driving licences and other documents and found it the other week. My father had an annual contract for years, and you could get quarterly and half yearly ones. A sumer season booklet of 10 day return tickets was also available at heavily discounted price and many pensioners on Merseyside travelled back and fro all summer, better still if you ran out you could top it up for free! What we need is better offers and special fares. I have just renewed my Mannan Executive club mebership for the two of us and at £425 for a year I had to think if it was really worth it. The answer was yes, but not because of any discount or the saving on 1st class seats, but because of the club administrator who sorts out my not infrequent changes of plan when travelling, with charm and grace and efficiency. On the other hand I have a similar card for Brittany Feries, costs £125 a year, and on my first booking of 2011 I have saved over £150 on the fare

But they could not capture a sufficient market share to break even with the cheapest charter rates for years and no long term committment the figures still did not add up. A bigger boat, even a Ro Ro, if the user agreement was ended, would be in an even worse position economically. It would just bring down both companies.

You must not forget that Wightlink has competition too. Wightlink has about 60% of the IOW traffic Red Funnel Red Funnel is the 'Original Isle of Wight ferry operator' and now carries in excess of 3.0m passengers and 0.6m vehicles per annum on routes between Southampton (UK mainland) and East and West Cowes (Isle of Wight). The fleet consists of modern purpose built Ro-Ro vehicle ferries and Red Jet Hi-Speed passenger catamarans.

and I could not find a judgement in an appeal against conviction so I assume he accepted he had been correctly convicted. In another thread about Douglas East and in the Dirk Hoehmann thread there have been comments about how slow things are information wise. Its not a conspiracy. The decision would have been given at the time verbally, ie no reduction, sentence to stand, and then the reasons have been written up and honed. The judge of appeal is not here all the time and the Deemster Doyle has had the death of Deemster Kerruish, pressure through being a judge down, job applications and interviews, as well as his regular load of hearings and cases and administrative work. The Douglas East defendants will appear in court and be named and the offences charged will become public. Dr Dirk will appear before the Court of General Gaol, when he is listed to appear. Nothing has gone away. Sometinmes things get missed by the press. Like Mr Baines fire arms offences which were admitted and dealt with by a summary court some time ago. i did not see a report.

Yes Condor is owned by Commodore, which is owned by McQuarrie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condor_Ferries

The legal reasoning behind the justification for the length of sentence for Trevor Baines in respect of his first convictions is now available as the Court of Appeal judgement has been posted on the Courts web site http://www.judgments.im/Content/J1106.htm