StuartT

Wouldn't dream of it.... there are however two F's in off as in when you want to take something off your roof or rooves...

Hmm the marine drive roadway - what a great success eh? Ran as a tramway without a problem for nearly 50 years. Then closed, to be rebuilt as a road - which had to be closed due to landfalls only 20 years later...

Yet again you astonish us all with your detachment from the real world. Somehow you think the solution to 90 minutes of mild congestion a day is to construct near-useless railway lines. You are suffering dangerously high delusions of granduer. Not only would your scheme cost at least tens of millions of pounds, it would be utterly useless. Firstly, the number of heavy vehicles using Manx roads is tiny, and they do not contribute substantially to congestion. They get in on the Ben either before the morning rush, or after the evening one. To use rail for freight, facilities would have to be constructed for the loading and unloading of containers at Douglas (where the line never reached the linkspan in the first place) and at every other town, at which point they would have to be put on...HGVs. Sending freight by rail may work in Britain where journeys can be 100s of miles and where they actually have a proper rail network, but the Isle of Man only has two tourist lines, which it struggles to keep going as is. Cars cause congestion on the Isle of Man, something buses would reduce. As someone who has looked at (and experienced) public transport in a number of global locations, I can but agree that trams and light rail have a lot to offer residents - of large cities. To say they are used more than buses even there is absurd. However, in small towns like, say, Warrington, buses are used. They are cheap, operate on existing infrastructure (roads), and provision can be made to give them superior access in certain circumstances. There are no actually long journeys on the Isle of Man that would be better served by light rail. Presumably you forsee people taking the light rail to, say, Port Erin, then getting a bus from there? Why not just get the bus (or the xpress bus) to Port Erin? Maybe have some bike lockers at one of the bus stops. I'm not even going to comment on your stupid B overpass idea. Look, your ideas are crazy-expensive, unsuitable and do not even provide a clearly superior alternative. In your world, Manx roads are similar to the M25, but really traffic is not that serious a problem. It is nearly unbelievable that in a thread that questions the value for money in a £4million junction scheme produces a response like this that would cost 10s if not 100s of millions of pounds, yet provide few obvious benefits, and still not be more convienant than a private automobile. Next. You show a certain detachment from reality, if you believe an already failed solution - buses are going to help the problem. I do not believe Manx roads are the M25 - however we seem to be wasting far greater sums on them than are really appropriate. As for the real world, most motorists are failing to live in it if they believe that they can continue to use their cars without regard to the congestion they cause, or the damage they are causing to the environment. Or if they really believe that spending sums of money such as 4M per roundabout is justified just to allow them to use their metal boxes. A railway system may cost much more than 4M, but if you think in terms of it being a long term solution - let's say a 100 year rather than just a 4 - 10 year one (if these countless roundabouts, road widening, and traffic lights really are ever a solution), and compare it to the total cost of highway expenditure Island wide, then you should find that things will balance out far more. Add in the disincentives to car use which is genuinely needed(I'd totally ban cars from Douglas with the exception of Disabled vehicles, and any business which has a genuine need to use them - at a massive premium of course), a decent bus service around Douglas and other towns, and a properly integrated public transport system would pay for itself. Even if a railway scheme did cost £100 Million, if you build it as a 100 plus year solution, it would still work out as equal value (less than 1 Million per year) than a 4 million roundabout which may possibly have the desired effect for 4 years (1 Million per year) if even that!

Shouldn't the old railway line be re-instated, with commuter trains? £4m would go a long way towards that, and it would take a lot of the traffic off the roads. Not possible. When the line was lifted, the energy lines and pipes were put in underground as it was a cheaper option. Putting them overhead and re-instating the line would cost far in excess of 4m. Forward planning can be a hell of a thing - especially when you only have 5 years to do it in. Apparently. Hardly, there is a gas pipeline underneath the Port Erin Line, as well as the Iris Scheme. That doesn't seem to be a problem. Also forward planning, this is precisely why we need a railway network - something independant of the roads which will not get snarled up. It would also allow you to get heavy goods vehicles off the road totally, only a good thing in the IOM - something which a busway would not. Incidentally anyone who has actually looked at public transport in the long term and in the wider world would appreciate that tramways, and light railway are used to a far greater extent by commuters than specialist busways. Of those places which used Busways as an alternative to tramways and light railways, many of them are converting them into tramways as a more viable long term solution, and have chosen not to extend their busways. As for the railway or any other public transport system not paying - possibly not in the current economic climate and with the current line of thinking. That is precisely why we need the carrot and stick approach - to give a suitable competitive long term solution to traffic problems - and a stick of making it prohibitively expensive to use motor cars in order that the system will be paid for in the long term. The place for buses would be in a town which eliminated cars from their streets, and to act as a feeder for the railways. Not as a long distance form of transport on already clogged roads. One of the excuses used to justify not using the railways as a commuter system was the cost of specialist rolling stock built to manx loading gauge and for the 3ft gauge track. In the case of the Ramsey and Peel lines, there is no reason why they could not be relayed to standard gauge and ran using modern 2nd hand stock from the UK. If this was a sucess then the option could be considered for the Port Erin Line too, with the 3ft kept as a 3rd rail for enthusiasts specials. Of course the car bound manx people just keep looking in the short term for any excuse to keep themselves in their cars, rather than come up with a long term future alternative which could last for 100+ years rather than 10. As for the railway being a problem at QB, not necessarily as you could always build an over pass (with a bridge/under the railway), but if you were sucessful in discouraging car use sufficiently then it wouldn't really be a problem. And if it irritates a few more motorists having to wait for trains to come through, then that can only be a good thing as it would make it more inconvenient for them to use their cars. Yes you need the carrot, but it is plain to see from the attitudes of a lot of posters, you also need a stick. Of course most of you appear to be unable to think in terms of anything except the short term and along current lines, rather than outside the box.

Surely the cheapo solution is to turn all of the Peel Road/Pulrose area into a huge roundabout - eg Peel Road from QB is Douglas bound only, Pulrose bridge is right turn only (or left from Douglas), right onto groves road , Right at end of Groves road back to QB. Simple. Of course that wouldn't give the excuse to waste 4M on a roundabout...

I *think* that it is shown to help people imagine how the roundabout will look, where it will be placed etc - AFAIK the QB is being demolished, but you never can tell. I notice on the plans as well, that it will encroach on the old railway line. Now some of you will probably say "so what"!!?!?!.. Personally I think it sends a clear message about the governments attitudes to alternatives to the car. How much over £4M would it cost to put a railway back to peel, or build a decent cycleway along to North Quay? Of course in this car obsessed Island why on earth bother to consider any other alternative actions? Also the comments about not encroaching on the TT is a joke as well - I mean we can destroy everything else in the area, but we can't possibly affect the TT course!...

Spoke to Girl89 on Saturday at the QB, not sure if she knew who I was???

What a pity you only got a phone from her..... :-P

Not sure, but I think I might have talked to Ariel a few times, but only just seen a picture of her now, so I don't know if it is her!!??

golem was carrying more weight!!... Who are you?? Sauron himself??

Glass houses, man. Glass houses. I'm not really tall enough to be a cave troll. Perhaps more like dwarf orc proportions??

I'm reminded of the time an acquaintence of mine cast a derisory gaze over the Outback's clientelle and asked why he appeared to be in a scene from Lord of the Rings. Nice to see the nominal australian motif still has room to accomodate the traditional golem theme that's been running since the Tardis days. I know, I keep tripping over those hobbits all around the place. Thought I'd seen a cave troll in there once, but then I realised it was just Ans

The pinball machine is now gone, to be replaced with a Lord of the Rings gambling machine. However you do not seem to be able to get google upon it.

I believe it's a popular mod of The Tardis, same buggy game engine and shakey graphics but ok if you can suspend your disbelief long enough for the alcohol to take over. make sure you've got plenty of protection when you're browsing in there. Otherwise you might catch a virus!!!...

You forgot about when I set fire to your pigtails as well!!....

shhh, damn that's my reputation as a forum @sshole gone now!!!

So the outback isn't real life then? Wow must get in there if it's not real. Is it like being in an interactive game or summat? well I think of it as a game, just somewhere to p1ss around in. I suppose it depends on your outlook.

lol! indeed!! StuartT, acts very bitchy should you try dance him off!!! maybe last year sometime, was next to the guy Raving like a loon as I do cos the music makes me go into overdrive... thought i would be gentlemanly to greet StuartT with a handshake.. this was shunned by what appeared to be an extreme feminine twich of the body and head up in the air...PMSL!!! Maybe it wasnt StuartT... but Im sure it was the resident outback raver No hard feelings m8! Well I get on with most people I know to be ok, but I've got used to a lot of dickheads giving me hassle & trying to kick off on me, so you must understand that's why I'm very standoffish with people I don't know. The twitch & the head in the air is pissing around, don't judge me either by here or the Outback, in real life I'm very different.

I've not been dancing there lately - well actually I have when I can grab a minute off the work I'm supposed to be doing!!! Just found out someone has started an Outback dancer fangroup on the Facebook website!!!....:-0 Saw Kitty last night, she didn't guess who I was, had to give her loads of clues until she finally got it!!! She seems quite nice though.

I keep seeing Amadeus in the Outback in the early evenings. I don't think he has twigged who I am yet.

This thread has brought back a few memories. Does anyone remember Miss Spate, the 20 something PE teacher? All the lads really had a thing for her. Also remember another PE teacher, unfortunately forgot her name, but she was really nice. I think she died of cancer though. Remember Mr Johnson, who was a PE teacher, also Mr Thomas.

Talking about the impact of lead mining on the ecosystem, I've seem a picture of Peel men digging for bait for fishing in Douglas, as there was no sandworms left alive in Peel due to the outflow from the Foxdale mines.