Opinions Please

[bluemonday]

I have an elderly relative who owns a flat in Douglas in a block of similar flats. It was a conversion from hotels not a new build.

The management company is currently done by some of the residents and it's a total balls up.

At the moment, ( and has been for a number of weeks ) the normal access through secured doors into the general areas of the building is non functional so the building is not secure and anyone can walk in off the street.

 

Now the 'management company' arrange and pay for the building insurance through a levy on owners.

That's for the structure only, contents insurance being each owners responsibility.

 

Question:

Given that the building is not secure, would a claim on the 'structure insurance' be prejudiced by the fact that the building is not secure?

EG If someone walked in and damaged it, would the insurance company question/reduce/disallow the claim as the place wasn't properly secured.

 

Any view/opinion on this please?

Cheers

[Albert Tatlock]

Many of these management companies tend to be set up as limited companies and run by a couple of well meaning residents, usually, as with most anything, because there is a shortage of volunteers. Generally, all starts well, until they, and other residents (initially grateful they don't have to do it) start to lose interest. And to be fair to many volunteers, they usually soon find it a pain in the arse consistently chasing people to meet their originally agreed responsibilities, and/or pay in their share etc.

 

If something happens, I'm sure any insurance company will not be impressed if they find out obvious basic security has been neglected for a long period, to the extent they may well themselves seek compensation from the management company itself IMO.

 

These things are best handled diplomatically IMO, as don't forget if you push too hard, volunteers running things can simply threaten to resign (unless it is agreed in the paperwork, those in say, 'Flat 1' have to be part of the management company - I've seen that happen in the UK, in exhange for discounts). But it's not that easy to simply resign as a director from a limited company, usually they just have the required basic director and secretary - that have to be replaced.

 

Personally, I would find out who is on the management company and ask them for a meeting. As a 'concerned relative' I would go over the 'dangers' and 'potential consequences' of the management company not fulfilling its functions, and the fact that companies (if it is Ltd, as I would suspect) can be sued too. However, in this case, if it was my relative, I'd go in not just stating the dangers, but volunteering to help a little by being willing to talk to other residents about it too, maybe even offering to sort the lock out for them asking them who should get the bill.

 

However, alternatively another answer might be just to get a friendly neighbourhood copper you know, to knock on the door or get one of the local community coppers to do so - ask for who is responsible for the front door and remind them it is insecure and the consequences. I think there might well be a lock on the front door far sooner that way.

 

ETA: It would be a pain in the ass, but if you think enough of your relative, another option would be to get them on the PM company themselves and do the work required on their behalf yourself. That'll sort em.

 

.

[wazir]

Wow, yet another case of a Manx person complaining that other people aren't sorting out their problems for them:

 

If you don't think they are doing a good job then get you or your relative on the management company yourself and sort it out!

 

Either (1) the management people are lazy or (2) they are incompetent (either because of lack of inclination or resources). In either case you could help out by getting involved.

 

Having said that, they do need to get the building locked up. And it's true that these things can be a nightmare, I own a couple of flat in the South and they are generally run by a bunch of busybodies or by a load of well-meaning volunteers who can't really do much when it comes down to it

 

Do what Tatlock said - organize a meeting so you can get involved and sort it out. Do they have regular meetings (if not why not?) and do you attend them (if not why not?).

 

One warning though, on what Tatlock said - if you wind them up and they do resign as directors or whatever are you prepared to take it on? I only ask since you seem a bit 'all mouth and no trousers' (no offense).

[spermann]

I would state the alternative, that being, that if the current issues are not resolved, then a qualified management company will have to be installed and the monthly management fee would have to be increased to pay for the correct service. you cant have your cake and eat it.

[wazir]

Yeah they have that in my flat in Castletown (a well known estate agent is operating it).

 

If anything I've found them worse to deal with.

 

But if you are prepared to pay a few hundred a month it will at least mean there is someone you can get hold of/sue when things go wrong. It SHOULD mean that at least the locks etc would be maintained - though it's not guaranteed because some estate agents are awful quite frankly.

 

But at the very least it saves you getting off your doubtless quite rounded arse and doing anything about it.

[hugh janus]

Get 3 quotes to get it fixed.

 

Pick the cheapest.

 

Get it fixed, send the bill to the 'management' company with 7 days to pay. Point out that the building fabric is NOT INSURED while it remains open to the street as reasonable steps are not being taken to reduce the risks to the insurance company who WILL NOT PAY OUT for any damage.

 

Been there, done that.

 

In my case, someone set light to a mail box in the lobby one afternoon.

 

Insurance would not pay out for damage because reasonable steps had not been carried out to secure the entrance.

 

I have also had experience of damage to leased/owned office space. Each paid a fee for buildings insurance, the door was left open and 3 radiators, and a set of fire doors where taken leaving just block work and a flood. The same happened, not covered as the property was insecure, resonable steps where not taken to secure it. Its all in the small print.

[pongo]

Get 3 quotes to get it fixed.

 

Pick the cheapest.

 

Get it fixed, send the bill to the 'management' company with 7 days to pay. Point out that the building fabric is NOT INSURED while it remains open to the street as reasonable steps are not being taken to reduce the risks to the insurance company who WILL NOT PAY OUT for any damage.

 

Bad advice. You cannot spend money on behalf of the management company unless the management company has agreed to it. And it always creates further problems.

 

Find out who the Secretary and Treasurer of the management company is and contact either or both of them. Then explain the issue re the insurance and get them to either call a meeting or to authorise the repairs if they have that power. It will take not much more time to do it the right way. People going out and doing stuff on their own without reference to the management company is going to further disintegrate any relationships which exists.

 

Shared management companies are notoriously a nightmare. You will probably find that the Treasurer and Secretary are pulling their hair out trying to sort the company out but are out of their depth. These things are ultimately businesses responsible for a valuable asset but are frequently given far too little attention and lack adequate resources. In the end putting the company in the hands of reputable professional management normally works best - although the short sighted leaseholders are often too tight to consider that option.

[hugh janus]

Typical Manx reply.

 

Lets call a meeting, we can then spend the next weeks telling everyone thay you are not free on such a such date because I have to attend a meeting.

 

You then all sit in a meeting listening to the sound of your voices and still not decide anything.

 

Meanwhile, 6 months down the line, it all goes tits up, no one is insured and you all sit about wondering why.

 

Get a screwdriver and fix it, or get someone in to do it. Give the people who should be doing it the bill, and tell them to get off their fat backsides, remove their thumb from it and start to do what they should be doing for the money they are getting.