P.K. Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 51 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said: He "was" a child, before his mental mother surrounded him with IS, he was an innocent. The fact we can be so "calm and detached" about the summary execution of a 12 year old is a worrying thing. The fact it was without a trial is just as shocking. Our supposed "moral high ground" is getting shakier all the time. Firstly the fruitcake mother had better be dead. Those Hellfire missiles cost over £90k each! Secondly had we set out to deliberately target the probably less than innocent son I would be unhappy about it. We didn't. So it's not a "summary execution" at all so I'm fine with it. The only person to blame for his probable demise is the mother and no one else. She took him into a war zone and no doubt encouraged him to join a death cult that has no respect whatsoever for the sanctity of human life. What would you think about the same 12 year old targeting your comrades as a suicide bomber? I wouldn't hesitate to drop him and I'm pretty sure neither would anyone else. Including you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, P.K. said: Firstly the fruitcake mother had better be dead. Those Hellfire missiles cost over £90k each! Secondly had we set out to deliberately target the probably less than innocent son I would be unhappy about it. We didn't. So it's not a "summary execution" at all so I'm fine with it. The only person to blame for his probable demise is the mother and no one else. She took him into a war zone and no doubt encouraged him to join a death cult that has no respect whatsoever for the sanctity of human life. What would you think about the same 12 year old targeting your comrades as a suicide bomber? I wouldn't hesitate to drop him and I'm pretty sure neither would anyone else. Including you.... succinctly put sir... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, P.K. said: Firstly the fruitcake mother had better be dead. Those Hellfire missiles cost over £90k each! Secondly had we set out to deliberately target the probably less than innocent son I would be unhappy about it. We didn't. So it's not a "summary execution" at all so I'm fine with it. The only person to blame for his probable demise is the mother and no one else. She took him into a war zone and no doubt encouraged him to join a death cult that has no respect whatsoever for the sanctity of human life. What would you think about the same 12 year old targeting your comrades as a suicide bomber? I wouldn't hesitate to drop him and I'm pretty sure neither would anyone else. Including you.... Clearly sufficient "due diligence" was not taken to ensure unnecessary casualties were created if that is the case. There but for the sins of the mother. As for your hypothetical, "dropping" a child is a doomsday scenario no soldier should have to face. But then you are assuming he would have become a suicide bomber. By some of the logic being displayed here, we should execute all children in IS held territory, just in case they become a suicide bomber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Lets have a look at the particulars of the killing: Previously there had been no strikes against "Hacker" Hussain because of fears his step-son who was being used as a human shield would become a casualty. The strike that did kill the boy (and the mother - seeing as "Hacker" Hussain had already been killed in an airstrike previously), was fired from a CIA drone, using new "rules of engagement" that came in under Trump. When did potentially killing children become an acceptable "risk"? Whoops, I forgot about the botched Yemen fiasco... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 "A campaign statement by Donald Trump suggests the new leader of the free world may view such civilian casualties as inevitable, or even necessary. "The other thing with the terrorists is you have to take out their families, when you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families,” he said in December. “When they say they don't care about their lives, you have to take out their families.”" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 minute ago, RIchard Britten said: Clearly sufficient "due diligence" was not taken to ensure unnecessary casualties were created if that is the case. There but for the sins of the mother. As for your hypothetical, "dropping" a child is a doomsday scenario no soldier should have to face. But then you are assuming he would have become a suicide bomber. By some of the logic being displayed here, we should execute all children in IS held territory, just in case they become a suicide bomber. Come on Richard. How can you do "due diligence" to be sure of anything out there? I shouldn't have to point out to ex-services but modern warfare is about winning. So essentially you ideally need to manouvre your enemy into such a position they can be massacred in safety. Anything less, like doing "due diligence" with boots on the ground, simply leads to unnecessay casualties on your own side. In other words you simply shouldn't do it. As to your "doomsday scenario" it's even worse than that: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/female-suicide-bomber-jihadist-bride-isis-iraq-fall-of-mosul-a7832276.html As I posted earlier they just don't care so judging them by civilised standards is probably a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Just now, P.K. said: Come on Richard. How can you do "due diligence" to be sure of anything out there? Drones have cameras as well as missiles... As with Sandy Hook and gun crime in the US, once you normalise the killing of children, there isn't much deeper you can go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said: Drones have cameras as well as missiles... As with Sandy Hook and gun crime in the US, once you normalise the killing of children, there isn't much deeper you can go. These cameras, can they see inside vehicles at night with enough resolution to make identification error free? Even when reduced to eye slits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Turns out "drone strikes" should be renamed "drone ah well close enough"... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/24/-sp-us-drone-strikes-kill-1147 (and that is from 2014...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Just now, P.K. said: These cameras, can they see inside vehicles at night with enough resolution to make identification error free? https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/146909-darpa-shows-off-1-8-gigapixel-surveillance-drone-can-spot-a-terrorist-from-20000-feet Looks like they can... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 17 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said: British IS recruiter Sally-Anne Jones 'killed by drone' - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41593659 If they have 'legitimately' killed a 12 year old, travelling with his mother...there is, indeed, something wrong with the world. Everyone is entitled to a fair trial. An innocent 12 year old child is entitled to a rethink of the whole system. How do you know the 12 year old is "innocent"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, notwell said: How do you know the 12 year old is "innocent"? How do you know he isn't? What happened to be being innocent until proven guilty? Love to see America wiping its arse on the GC again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarne Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 14 hours ago, quilp said: Oh yeah, here it is... Thanks Quilp. Though as expected, the Collaborator comes in here saying "No, everything is made of chocolate and it's great. It's all our Western fault." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Tarne said: Thanks Quilp. Though as expected, the Collaborator comes in here saying "No, everything is made of chocolate and it's great. It's all our Western fault." "Collaborator". Low balling it again Tarne? I take you have evidence of an actual crime to show everyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said: How do you know he isn't? What happened to be being innocent until proven guilty? Love to see America wiping its arse on the GC again. Well I don't know Richard. But neither do you. The one thing we do know is that the woman is question needed to be taken out. That's the over riding decision. Others are going to die. It's inevitable but acceptable IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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