Uhtred Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 18 hours ago, wrighty said: Few points to make on this topic. As all are aware I am a Noble’s consultant, but I’m not in the top 10 this thread refers to. Firstly, the consultant pay scale here is the same as the UK, broadly, except we have additional automatic progression through 20 points whereas in the UK the higher points have to be applied for based on other roles, the so called merit award system. This automatic progression is used as a selling point to attract applicants here, and in my view it’s not a bad thing. In the UK the people who get the awards are usually the ones who are never at the hospital because they’re on national committees etc. Here at least we’re paid for loyalty/longevity of tenure. The second point is job planning. Each consultant has a job plan which details how many sessions per week they work. The basic is 10 for full time, notionally 40 hours per week including some hours for continuing professional development. Most consultants here work more than 10, because we generally have fewer consultants than the colleges recommend. In my specialty, based on our population we should have 5 or 6 consultants. There are 4 of us. Paying 4 people to do the work of 5 or 6 makes sense for the employer as there are reduced superannuation contributions and in the future fewer pensions to pay. And pensions are based on the basic 10 sessions. This is one reason our salaries are higher than the UK where generally NHS trusts have pared things to the bone with everyone on 10. We’re also not comparing like with like. In the NHS consultants will do extra NHS work in the private sector, using the ‘choose and book’ facility the GPs there have. This salary will not be included in the NHS figures we’re comparing with. There are other things too which make the figures incomparable. In our top ten numbers, additional bank work is counted - this is when a colleague goes on leave and instead of paying for an external agency locum the work is kept in-house for additional pay. Agency locums do cost a fortune, certainly in shortage specialties, but I don’t think Max’s 500K example is right. It does cost a lot to employ a consultant. I don’t know how much is right, but if we’re made public enemy number 1 and get accused of fleecing the NHS then I can guarantee recruitment, hard enough as it is, will get worse, and this will only increase the wage bill as more agency staff are used to plug gaps. As others have pointed out, market forces apply, and where people might like to think of the medical profession as Dr Kildare types doing it for the love of humanity, the reality is that the pressures and risks associated with the job are increasing and unless we’re paid well people won’t do it. You are (potentially diplomatically) silent on the observation made by other posters that revisions to Consultants pension arrangements - which were insisted upon by Eddie Teare if memory serves - have very adversely affected Consultant recruitment. Is this so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 On 9/20/2018 at 11:17 PM, Max Power said: I'm sure wrighty will be able to confirm or deny this but I'm reliably informed that there are locum consultants earning £500,000 pa at Nobles! 19 hours ago, wrighty said: Agency locums do cost a fortune, certainly in shortage specialties, but I don’t think Max’s 500K example is right. Thanks wrighty, as I mentioned, the info was from a reasonably reliable source but it may not mean that a particular locum is earning £500k pa on reflection. It could be that the rate equates to £500k per locum per annum, spread over a number of locums? As someone mentioned, does it really matter as long as you have the best people saving lives and making life better for people? I only have a very limited experience in performing immediate life saving procedures with limited training. It's marvelous how that training helps you but it's a nerve wracking responsibility carrying out even the most basic procedures whilst awaiting proper medical help. I can't imagine what it must be like for a surgeon, despite my boyhood experience in a butchers shop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, Max Power said: Thanks wrighty, as I mentioned, the info was from a reasonably reliable source but it may not mean that a particular locum is earning £500k pa on reflection. It could be that the rate equates to £500k per locum per annum, spread over a number of locums? As someone mentioned, does it really matter as long as you have the best people saving lives and making life better for people? I only have a very limited experience in performing immediate life saving procedures with limited training. It's marvelous how that training helps you but it's a nerve wracking responsibility carrying out even the most basic procedures whilst awaiting proper medical help. I can't imagine what it must be like for a surgeon, despite my boyhood experience in a butchers shop! It’s quite possible, pro rata, that is the cost to the hospital, but you have to take into account that that is the top line, it probably includes the agency fee ( not insubstantial ), the fact that locums don’t get holiday, sick pay, have training paid for, or employers or employees NI or pension contributions. You also have to take into account that the figures quoted by wrighty probably don’t include employers NI or pension contributions for which you can add about 20% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Gay'n Posted September 25, 2018 Author Share Posted September 25, 2018 If you have 14 minutes to spare, watch Saint Kate's interview with Moulton here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh-W3EZ2to8&feature=youtu.be Predictably, everything is the fault of Couch in her mind, but there are some really interesting nuggets of information showing what sounds like really deeply seated problems - especially at Noble's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhtred Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 19 hours ago, Boo Gay'n said: If you have 14 minutes to spare, watch Saint Kate's interview with Moulton here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh-W3EZ2to8&feature=youtu.be Predictably, everything is the fault of Couch in her mind, but there are some really interesting nuggets of information showing what sounds like really deeply seated problems - especially at Noble's. That woman is a beauty - with no sense of irony. Moulton also has a gift for interrupting both himself and the interviewee in the same sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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