spook

There's a couple of people who seem to have disturbingly bigoted opinions. One does appear to be remarkably intellectually challenged. Mountain Hare? Hair brained more like!

I remember some years ago when the name of the ship was announced an old chap that I knew told me in all seriousness that calling the boat "Manannan" would bring bad luck. Of course I dismissed what he said, but in view of the history of the thing maybe he had a point!

Your religious rubbish is boring me now and for that reason...I'm oot. Apart from refering to some aspects about Judaism and inheritance I may be wrong but I really don't think that I have brought religion into this thread unlike yourself.

What I don't understand is why celebrities such as Rihanna are being criticised and accused of anti-semitism for posting #FreePalestine on their Twitter or for praying for peace in Gaza. As a Zionist, I do want a free Palestine and, if I felt compelled to pray, I would pray for peace in Gaza. Why are people so stupid? As someone with no direct association I can see that a designated 'state' for what are now called Palestinians would result in the end of Israel and quite possibly trigger a global war because of the defense treaties that would immediately agreed with such a new state.

Well 80 I note your claim but there is more than enough evidence to level the charge of expressing and promoting antisemitism in what you have written in this thread alone. In that respect I would add blatant racism for the simple reason that be they a race, a nationality, or whatever to express some of the things that you have written directly or implied against Jewish people in the way that you have is appalling.

What rubbish. You can't be Jewish by roots. It's exactly this kind of brain washing which is holding humanity back. You're born a free human being. It matters not what form of mind control or belief system your parents have, you aren't born with them, you acquire them. My grandmother was born from Jewish parents, my grandad wasn't. My father wasn't the least bit interested in religion and neither am I. However some idiot would have you believe that my dad was Jewish because his mum was. What absolute tripe. There was a case of an Arab baby who was somehow adopted by a Jewish couple & brought up as a member of their faith. He had terrible problems doing his national service for 'looking like a f*cking Arab'. Why Mossad didn't take him up I don't know Probably did do. He'll be like a golden nugget to that crew. What rubbish. You can't be Jewish by roots. It's exactly this kind of brain washing which is holding humanity back. You're born a free human being. It matters not what form of mind control or belief system your parents have, you aren't born with them, you acquire them. My grandmother was born from Jewish parents, my grandad wasn't. My father wasn't the least bit interested in religion and neither am I. However some idiot would have you believe that my dad was Jewish because his mum was. What absolute tripe. There was a case of an Arab baby who was somehow adopted by a Jewish couple & brought up as a member of their faith. He had terrible problems doing his national service for 'looking like a f*cking Arab'. Why Mossad didn't take him up I don't know Probably did do. He'll be like a golden nugget to that crew. Tell me, why are you so anti-semitic?

What rubbish. You can't be Jewish by roots. It's exactly this kind of brain washing which is holding humanity back. You're born a free human being. It matters not what form of mind control or belief system your parents have, you aren't born with them, you acquire them. My grandmother was born from Jewish parents, my grandad wasn't. My father wasn't the least bit interested in religion and neither am I. However some idiot would have you believe that my dad was Jewish because his mum was. What absolute tripe. There was a case of an Arab baby who was somehow adopted by a Jewish couple & brought up as a member of their faith. He had terrible problems doing his national service for 'looking like a f*cking Arab'. Why Mossad didn't take him up I don't know To be honest in a lot of cases where orthodox Jewish people, men especially, are concerned I find it difficult to impossible to tell tother from which just based on appearance.

You really are symptomatic of the delusion that runs through all religion. Judaism is not a race as there is no common genetic ancestry. Therefore a person cannot be born 'Jewish.' It is a belief system that is acquired after birth. If you want to regurgitate the rubbish that religion spews then you're fine to, just as you're fine to believe it, but all you have done is acquire a form of mind control that has been perfected over thousands of years to keep that particular game going. 80, All that I'm doing is explaining the Jewish law both spiritual and temporal as regards hereditary links.

Lxxx, in Judaism a person born of a Jewish mother is indeed a Jewish person. If they choose to adopt that religion is up to them but the inescapable FACT is that he is and will remain a Jewish person in the eyes of Hahaha law and Israeli law. If that person chosen to convert then that is his or her choice but the Judaistic link is never broken. It is for this female linkage that while appearance between people can and does very, Sammy Davis Junior being a prime example, the solid immutable link to Judaism is present. So, '80' if it was your maternal grandmother who was Jewish by descent then guess what. So are you.

I think that it's rather important to realise that in the same way that there are a number of sects in Christianity there are also a number of Sects in Judaism. It's nothing like a caste system, it's more comparable with let us say the Exclusive Brethren at one extreme and the (you choose!) at the other. What's more there even are Jewish people who are atheists. Such people are Jewish by roots, by family connection, by traditions, and by nationality, but who are secular in their thinking where The Lord is concerned.

And your point is? If anything that strengthens the assertion that a Jewish person has a nationality of his own. Israel has a fine reputation of welcoming Jewish people from wherever. The Ethiopian influx some years ago was one such just as Israel offers asylum to the genuinely oppressed no matter race colour or creed. I must admit the more that I learn about Israel the more that I admire and respect the nation and it's people.

That in and of itself sounds racist against people like the Kurds and the Basques who are deprived of their national self-determination and kept within the borders of other peoples' countries. Precisely.

Judging by the increase in anti-semitism in the world and surprisingly at least to me in Europe it is very clear that there should be a Jewish state. As I understand it being a Jewish person is to be both a follower of a religion that is the precursor to Christianity and also to be a member of a race. For a race to not have a homeland to my mind is appalling but also very dangerous for people of that race and history would seem to support that view. In my opinion, and I am ready to be corrected because this is an area that is new to me, the situation where both race and religion combine is unique to Jewish people. Again from a position of uncertainty although Jewish people will and do fully integrated with any country that they live in, usually as full blown bona fide citizens of those countries, in those same countries the accepting Jewish people is by no means reciprocated hence yet another reason that to have a homeland is so important if they need somewhere to go home to when they get told "Hey Jew - go home" and far far worse, especially recently. Am I right? What do you think.

It's interesting. Britain was tasked to manage that bit of the broken up Ottoman empire while two states were established. Jordan was created as the Arab state, what was left was supposed to be Jewish state. That was determined by both the league of nation's and later the UN. On that basis there was and IS a Palestinian state. The trouble seems to be that a bunch of rag tag trouble making mostly bandits created mayhem in the established Palestinian state and got kicked out. What then happened ----

Of course and their use is entirely unthinkable but I was just counter-arguing that poor beleaguered Israel or any nuclear power is anything but beleaguered in reality because of it. Israel has a mighty army which has been exercising its might for decades against a group there before them who have no army or any defence, not even economic. Is it any wonder they have been exploited by terrorists with their own despicable agenda? who would that be? Certainly not the inhabitants of the Gaza Strip judging by how they were living and the presence of their elected Hamas government.

Good for the UK more like. Her reputation and track record was appalling.

Nuclear weapons are unique in so many ways. For one thing they are only of use as a weapon of defence. For another the moment one is used no matter the death toll it is tantamount to mass suicide for the state that used it.

But that's the point, isn't it? Israel and the Palestinian Territories are surrounded by Arab countries. They are just a tiny little area in a region which is majority Arab. Meanwhile, the Israelis are universally despised by anti-semites everywhere. It would seem that having Israel is very useful as an enemy to focus malcontents on rather than have them make trouble within the borders of a number of neighbouring states. In addition being overtly antagonistic to Israel earns leaders brownie points.

It turns out that the 'Palestians' are the invention of Yasser Arafat. There's a huge can of worms involved, it's worth digging because what emerges apart from being fascinating adds a number of dimensions that actually show the Israelis in an even better light. Indeed remarkable restraint and total reasonableness from the outset in 1947. One source, and obviously it can't be taken as impartial but it is a very good starting point is a site called the Jewish virtual library. For anyone who wants to really learn about a very great deal it's a very good kicking off point.

Lxxx, events would indicate otherwise. The embedded journalists have little choice other than do as they're told, parts of the UN are rabidly anti - Israel, the UNRWA have been shown to be cooperating with hamas, and as for the BBC, they are infamous for their anti - Israeli bias.

6You talk about Hamas as if they're some kind of professional, organised outfit with resources and influence to sway international opinion on a global scale. The press having 'Hamas handlers' ???! Are you even on this planet?? If you read other than the gutter press you will find bona fide reports from journalists who have been expelled or just got out of the area that tell how journalists in Gaza are being escorted and TOLD what to photograph and report. There can be no doubt thst hamas is a highly organised outfit, very well funded from both Turkey and Qatar which is no doubt a gateway for funds from other states. In addition there are leaks now coming out telling of a very strong military control manned by insurgents from other Arab states. This stuff is verifiable and comes from a wide variety of sources and not what might be called the usual suspects.

It's unfortunate that the press in Gaza are all obviously being well managed by their hamas handlers. It's also unfortunate that the press fail to show the hamas fighters or mention the number of insurgents and the role that other countries, especially Qatar and Turkey are playing. Turkey so desperate to gain accession to the EU. Let's hope their involvement with hamas rules EU membership outwith any luck for ever. Tonight I read a report that set out the requirements that hamas has set in order for them to agree to a cease fire. In essence they can be described as surrender by Israel. If hamas really had the best interests of the people in the Gaza Strip they would have adopted an entirely stance but of course they did not. And people are blaming Israel for what is taking place? Unbelievable.

Mention is made by Mark that Israel is better equipped. I don't think that they are. To begin with this present war is not being fought in Gaza city, it's being fought in the press and with a disciplined military force intent on protecting their own nation on one side, and by a collection of thugs supported by Turkey and Qatar on the other. A bunch lf thugs and indoctrinated people who are more than willing to become martyrs for their cause and if that means using themselves or their kids as weapons of war then so be it. Israel certainly does not have such weapons to call upon and even if some Israelis were willing to sacrifice themselves for their homeland the powers that be would never countenance such a thing. So some superiority of weaponry. Israel are outgunned every which way when it comes down to shaping world opinion and support as Mark has proven with his claims. As for genocide, yet that has been taking place. Can't get away from that one. But genocide attacks by hamas. Look for the definition of genocide and compare it with the aims of hamas and it will become verfy clear which side has genocide as its aim and it's not Israel. When I launched this thread I was inclined against what I thought that was being done by Israel. Actually rather a lot, but since I've taken time which I now have a great deal of to look deeper into the present trouble and the background my opinion has changed completely.

Bit early in the day for lighting the candles innit?

So what do YOU conclude from those statistics? Males of 'fighting age' obviously make up the majority. Exactly what I saw. The other thing thats often overlooked is that women can and do engage in conflict.