KSF Megathread 2

[Theodolite]

An extraordinary verdict by the IOM high court

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/dec/07/elle-macpherson-kaupthing-legal-verdict?showallcomments=true#end-of-comments

 

It does seem that the Miss Mcphersons of the world are treated differently than the rest of the human race.

 

Really does seem that there is one law for on and one for another.

 

Who picks up the tab for Miss McPherson's costs as well as that of the liquidators and their lawyers? I suppose ultimately it will be the rest of the KSF depositors.

[Evil Goblin]

I definitely think the IOM Govt (Regulator) has a moral responsibility in this case, as a bank account (regardless of return rates) is NOT an investment product. You have no reasonable expectation that you face the possibility of losing all of your money if you put it into a bank deposit account.

As I've pointed out before, the mere fact of licensing doesn't mean a Government is guaranteeing deposits of any bank (save for any Compensation Schemes in force to the extent such schemes provide for). People really should bear that in mind.

[bellyup]

An extraordinary verdict by the IOM high court

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/dec/07/elle-macpherson-kaupthing-legal-verdict?showallcomments=true#end-of-comments

 

It does seem that the Miss Mcphersons of the world are treated differently than the rest of the human race.

 

Really does seem that there is one law for on and one for another.

 

Who picks up the tab for Miss McPherson's costs as well as that of the liquidators and their lawyers? I suppose ultimately it will be the rest of the KSF depositors.

 

Unfortunately you are right.

Pensioners and people who have lost their homes will now recover less as Miss M waltzes off Scott free and add insult to injury will have to pay her court costs and the liquidators.

She has a 5 million pound mortgage on the house she bought and sold so I cant understand why this should no be repaid immediately are normal mortgage when a house is sold.

[bellyup]

Really does seem that there is one law for on and one for another.

 

 

It's always been that way, and I can't see it changing anytime soon...

 

For instance, the director of KSFIOM who "restructured" his personal finances around the time of the collapse..... when all others were trying in vain to move their funds somehow he managed to.... Don't blame him, after all, who wouldn't?

Always the case that everyone is treated equally, just that some are more equal than others.

 

 

BTW I'm still owed 49% of my money, but am fortunate enough that I didn't put all my eggs in one basket (just quite a lot of them) and am young enough to re-lay those eggs.

 

I do have to say that I admire bellyup for still being outraged about the many injustices of this sorry case.

 

Thankfully I have managed to put it down to just another of those life experiences, but fully appreciate that if my circumstances were different it would be very difficult to move on, so I sympathise with his continual postings.

 

How would you deal with the situation if you'd worked hard all your life, provided for yourself and then had ALL your savings that you planned on enjoying a comfortable retirement with stolen?

 

It would be heartbreaking lesson to learn late in life not to put all your eggs in one basket.

 

I definitely think the IOM Govt (Regulator) has a moral responsibility in this case, as a bank account (regardless of return rates) is NOT an investment product. You have no reasonable expectation that you face the possibility of losing all of your money if you put it into a bank deposit account.

 

Thank you for this balanced and sensible post.

 

You will be pleased to know that the liquidators have announced that they are distributing another 10% of funds next week

 

This will take the total returns to 61.5%

 

With large repayments due from the loan book in 2011 plus the other amounts mentioned above it should be a good year.

This is surely an incentive for the IoMG to finally take on the loan book etc.on humanitarian grounds 61,5% already paid back and good returns due over the next few years it would mean the bulk of the matter could be resolved and elderly people and those who have been made homeless could have access to their savings now whilst in some cases they are still alive.

[jimbms]

This is surely an incentive for the IoMG to finally take on the loan book etc.on humanitarian grounds 61,5% already paid back and good returns due over the next few years it would mean the bulk of the matter could be resolved and elderly people and those who have been made homeless could have access to their savings now whilst in some cases they are still alive.

 

Erm no. why should we the Manx tax payers have to pay for your loss, you did not offer to give us any of your profits therefore we don't cover any of your losses, as we have said all along the moral obligation is the UK government who siezed the funds not the Manx taxpayer.

[Terse]

I'm afraid the continual posting on this subject has had much the same effect as Spook's postings on religion; any small degree of sympathy has long been eroded.

[bellyup]

I am afraid sympathy such as yours is worth nothing so feel free to keep it for yourself.

 

However there are IOM depositors out there who are interested in the latest developments .

[jimbms]

I am afraid sympathy such as yours is worth nothing so feel free to keep it for yourself.

 

However there are IOM depositors out there who are interested in the latest developments .

 

In that case go to their forum and stop fucking bleating on in this one

[Theodolite]

This is surely an incentive for the IoMG to finally take on the loan book etc.on humanitarian grounds 61,5% already paid back and good returns due over the next few years it would mean the bulk of the matter could be resolved and elderly people and those who have been made homeless could have access to their savings now whilst in some cases they are still alive.

 

Erm no. why should we the Manx tax payers have to pay for your loss, you did not offer to give us any of your profits therefore we don't cover any of your losses, as we have said all along the moral obligation is the UK government who siezed the funds not the Manx taxpayer.

To be fair, the the Manx taxpayer does gain by such profits in the fact that there is a Finance Industry here at all.

 

And I don't think the Manx taxpayer is being asked to pay for any loss here, just to take over the loan book. That surely can't be a bad thing and would tidy some of those loose ends up.

[Gladys]

What loose ends and what loan book?

[Theodolite]

Loose ends - people like bellyup

 

Loanbook - buy the debts to KSF

[bellyup]

What loose ends and what loan book?

 

Basically a large amounts of the assets of KSFIOM consist of a Loan Book.

This is money that the bank has loaned out to people for mortgages etc.for interest.

The KSFIOM Loan Book is in fact very solid and its major payouts will be in the years 2011 and 2012 but its final smaller payments will be up in 2017.

 

The Loan Trust Idea that has been put forward is that the IOMG take a loan from HMG - this could possibly be negotiated interest free- after all the Treasury Select Committee in London did ask several times of Tony Brown if he required help from HMG and the people involved are British Citizens.

HMG has just loaned Ireland 7 bn so a small loan to the IOMG would be nothing in comparison .

 

The depositors could them be paid off and have immediate access to their savings - the repayments from the Loan Book would go directly to the IOMG.( They would immediately pay themselves 4 million)

 

This means that people who need their savings to buy a home could do so instead of waiting for the years to pass.

Elderly people could have the benefit of their savings before they die.

Hospices and other charities would be able to use the funds now for the benefit of many.

 

The Liquidators must by this time have a good idea of how much risk is involved and the IOM is chock full of people who are in the financial sector who can manage this.

 

The benefits to the IOM is that it regains the moral high ground and restores its reputation as a Financial Centre.

[bellyup]

What loose ends and what loan book?

 

Basically a large amounts of the assets of KSFIOM consist of a Loan Book.

This is money that the bank has loaned out to people for mortgages etc.for interest.

The KSFIOM Loan Book is in fact very solid and its major payouts will be in the years 2011 and 2012 but its final smaller payments will be up in 2017.

 

The Loan Trust Idea that has been put forward is that the IOMG take a loan from HMG - this could possibly be negotiated interest free- after all the Treasury Select Committee in London did ask several times of Tony Brown if he required help from HMG and the people involved are British Citizens.

HMG has just loaned Ireland 7 bn so a small loan to the IOMG would be nothing in comparison .

 

The depositors could them be paid off and have immediate access to their savings - the repayments from the Loan Book would go directly to the IOMG.( They would immediately pay themselves 4 million)

 

This means that people who need their savings to buy a home could do so instead of waiting for the years to pass.

Elderly people could have the benefit of their savings before they die.

Hospices and other charities would be able to use the funds now for the benefit of many.

 

The Liquidators must by this time have a good idea of how much risk is involved and the IOM is chock full of people who are in the financial sector who can manage this.

 

The benefits to the IOM is that it regains the moral high ground and restores its reputation as a Financial Centre.

 

It was on manxradio this morning.

http://www.manxradio.com/newsread.aspx?id=48731

[Lost Login]

All the idea seems to be is that IoM Government, i.e. you and me as Manx Tax payers, or the UK Government pay out the depositors now and in return take any funds KSF get back . In effect it is another fancy way of the depositors saying that they should not suffer any loss rather it should be the Manx people via their taxes.

 

As for the argument that this would means that people who need their savings to buy a home could do so instead of waiting for the years to pass well in my view if you have access to come from KSF but I am fairly sure you could easily borrow against it.

 

Basically this is the KSF trying to get others to pay for their loss without saying it.

[bellyup]

All the idea seems to be is that IoM Government, i.e. you and me as Manx Tax payers, or the UK Government pay out the depositors now and in return take any funds KSF get back . In effect it is another fancy way of the depositors saying that they should not suffer any loss rather it should be the Manx people via their taxes.

 

As for the argument that this would means that people who need their savings to buy a home could do so instead of waiting for the years to pass well in my view if you have access to come from KSF but I am fairly sure you could easily borrow against it.

 

Basically this is the KSF trying to get others to pay for their loss without saying it.

 

Its called 'standing in the shoes' and its what every other country barring the IOM and channel isles has done.

You may not be aware that mortgages are very difficult nigh on impossible to get in todays world.

Elderly retired people are not high on the banks lending lists.

KSF is not trying to get others to 'pay ' for their loss - that would be impossible.

 

The stress , worry and hardship of the last two years can never be erased

 

 

KSFIOM depositors have lost their savings in a bank licensed in the IOM .

Its didnt fall out of their pockets or was lost on the 3.30 at Kempton Park.

They put their money into a bank - the Derbyshire Building Society on the IOM licensed by the IOM .

Their bank was taken over by Kaupthing with the full knowledge of the IOM.

The subsequent delays in the DCS were caused by the IOM not the depositors.

Its just a matter of time elderly pensioners dont have it.

Governments do.

 

By showing a little goodwill and doing the right thing towards the depositors the IOM would enhance its reputation as a safe financial centre.