KSF Megathread 2

[bellyup]

I didnt actually say that, I said if people 'think' they are

So, who thinks KSF were 'shady characters'?

 

 

I dont know do you?

TBH I don't give a shit - I didn't hide all my money offshore in a high yield account, live off the proceeds, not notice that the financial institution was in trouble and then whine endlessly about not getting a free cash handout because the risk didn't pay off.

There was a point at which people felt sorry for those who had lost their savings and worried about the impact on those people, as well as the Island's reputation. Now the majority of people really wish you'd all just shut the fuck up.

People like you have destroyed any goodwill there was towards other investors, and purely because of you I would rather every single one of you was left destitute than any of my hard-earned taxes going anywhere near you, ever.

 

Would you like this printed on every single financial product in the IOM?

A bit like a warning on a cigarette packet?

[censorship]

Would you like this printed on every single financial product in the IOM?

A bit like a warning on a cigarette packet?

 

Yes, as long as, alongside it, we can print your home or mobile phone number and the line "for further ifnormation call"*.

 

*Obviously we would have to include the warning that speaking to this person could lead to dangerously high levels of tedium and the desire to take your own life.

[bellyup]

Would you like this printed on every single financial product in the IOM?

A bit like a warning on a cigarette packet?

 

 

*Obviously we would have to include the warning that speaking to this person could lead to dangerously high levels of tedium and the desire to take your own life.

 

 

As you appear fascinated by my posts we must assume you are on the point of ending it all

[bellyup]

Yet another excellent article from the Manx Herald

 

http://www.manxherald.com/index.php/business/652.html

More an opinion piece than an article, as well as lacking some basic punctuation. That aside, all it does is demonstrate that hindsight is 20:20. It seems to me that Bell and the Treasury believed the SOA was likely to provide the greatest return to the depositors, but looking back now that may not have been the case.

I haven't really put forward a view on this, but surely any investment carries an element of risk which you, as the investor, must accept some share of. After all, you happily recieve interest payments which are the return on how your money is invested by the financial institution you choose.

Why should the government of that jurisdiction be held responsible for protecting you from the results of risk taking? I have yet to see evidence that government was responsible for the collapse of the bank, so why should it be responsible for you getting your money back?

Isn't it like putting a bet on a horse and when that horse loses asking the government of the country where the race was to give you back the money you bet?

Or is that too simplistic?

The problem is that with a licensing regime the Government is perceived to be guaranteeing the obligations of the banks. Whilst merely licensing a bank does not, in fact, involve any such guarantee outside of the DCS, the Government has never done anything to disabuse people that such a guarantee does not, in fact, exist. Indeed, the Government has passively allowed the impression to become a commonplace, whilst the banks have ramped the perceived guarantee for all they're worth. This doesn't just apply to the IoM - the UK and other Governments are in the same position.

 

This is correct EG.

However the UK and other governments did everything they could to make sure their depositors did not suffer by 'standing in their shoes'

 

With the high returns expected from KSFIOM there would be little risk to the IOM ( who themselves are creditors ) to do this basically humane way of helping ordinary people out of this nightmare scenario.

As before stated many are elderly and have a limited time left to recover their savings while governments continue for more or less ever.

[bellyup]

This article is going around the world in various expat magazines.

 

It is worth reading the comments to see what sort of people have lost their life savings and could be helped out by this initiative,

 

http://www.expatmoneychannel.com/node/1507

 

eg This one is from an IOM resident

 

Loan trust would seem a good idea. I am now 71 years old and to wait a further 6 years would be a nightmare for me. I have 2 daughters studying at university and this solution would help me now to see to their expenses whilst studying in the U/K.

I am an I.O.M resident and was assured by the bank staff that my money was safe! At 71 years old would the Government expect me and others older than I am to return to work or would it be easier for them to sort out this mess?

[MilitantDogOwner]

This article is going around the world in various expat magazines.

 

It is worth reading the comments to see what sort of people have lost their life savings and could be helped out by this initiative,

 

http://www.expatmoneychannel.com/node/1507

 

eg This one is from an IOM resident

 

Loan trust would seem a good idea. I am now 71 years old and to wait a further 6 years would be a nightmare for me. I have 2 daughters studying at university and this solution would help me now to see to their expenses whilst studying in the U/K.

I am an I.O.M resident and was assured by the bank staff that my money was safe! At 71 years old would the Government expect me and others older than I am to return to work or would it be easier for them to sort out this mess?

 

Bloody hell are you still going on?

 

Is that assurance in writing or just a throw away comment?

 

If you invest large sums of money in risk managed accounts and dont make sure you have all your affairs in order you have no-one but yourself to blame.

[bellyup]

This article is going around the world in various expat magazines.

 

It is worth reading the comments to see what sort of people have lost their life savings and could be helped out by this initiative,

 

http://www.expatmoneychannel.com/node/1507

 

eg This one is from an IOM resident

 

Loan trust would seem a good idea. I am now 71 years old and to wait a further 6 years would be a nightmare for me. I have 2 daughters studying at university and this solution would help me now to see to their expenses whilst studying in the U/K.

I am an I.O.M resident and was assured by the bank staff that my money was safe! At 71 years old would the Government expect me and others older than I am to return to work or would it be easier for them to sort out this mess?

 

If you invest large sums of money in risk managed accounts ...................

 

Is that what you call banks in the IOM?

[MilitantDogOwner]

This article is going around the world in various expat magazines.

 

It is worth reading the comments to see what sort of people have lost their life savings and could be helped out by this initiative,

 

http://www.expatmoneychannel.com/node/1507

 

eg This one is from an IOM resident

 

Loan trust would seem a good idea. I am now 71 years old and to wait a further 6 years would be a nightmare for me. I have 2 daughters studying at university and this solution would help me now to see to their expenses whilst studying in the U/K.

I am an I.O.M resident and was assured by the bank staff that my money was safe! At 71 years old would the Government expect me and others older than I am to return to work or would it be easier for them to sort out this mess?

 

If you invest large sums of money in risk managed accounts ...................

 

Is that what you call banks in the IOM?

 

Good to see that your clincal stupidity hasn't failed you.

 

I'll make it nice and simple for you. Show me a 100%, cast iron, fool proof guareenteed investment, or a bank that will 100% not fall over (including influence from external governments and financial events).

 

There, that is my challenge. Show me a 100% safe bank or investment. You only have to look at the Irish banks to see how the mighty can fall.

 

Who guarenteed your bank account when you took it out? I'll give you a clue it wasn't the IOMG.

[Amadeus]

words...

top tip: best way to handle bellyflop's constant whinging: don't feed the troll.

[bellyup]

The problem is that with a licensing regime the Government is perceived to be guaranteeing the obligations of the banks. Whilst merely licensing a bank does not, in fact, involve any such guarantee outside of the DCS, the Government has never done anything to disabuse people that such a guarantee does not, in fact, exist. Indeed, the Government has passively allowed the impression to become a commonplace, whilst the banks have ramped the perceived guarantee for all they're worth. This doesn't just apply to the IoM - the UK and other Governments are in the same position.

 

I have reposted your excellent explanation for MDOs benefit

As stated the difference between the UK and other governments is that they have stood in the shoes of the depositors and saved them from distress,the IOMG has not.

 

When this disaster first happened, the IOM Government, looked to protect its own population from assuming a huge debt.However this is no longer the case.

 

Now that Ms Craine has told everyone that the eventual return may be as high as 97% and that the shortfall is therefore minimal, it should be possible for the IOM Government, which was responsible for overseeing the banks, to shoulder this minimal amount and face up to its moral obligations to all depositors.

 

The depositors are not greedy and reckless, they have done no wrong ,they are merely asking for their own money to be returned.

 

To do the right thing is also the best thing for the IOMs reputation and future as a trustworthy financial centre.

[spook]

Good to see that your clincal stupidity hasn't failed you.

 

I'll make it nice and simple for you. Show me a 100%, cast iron, fool proof guareenteed investment, or a bank that will 100% not fall over (including influence from external governments and financial events).

 

There, that is my challenge. Show me a 100% safe bank or investment. You only have to look at the Irish banks to see how the mighty can fall.

 

Who guarenteed your bank account when you took it out? I'll give you a clue it wasn't the IOMG.

 

The UK high street banks look 100% safe provided you keep your money inside the upper limit of the UK government bank protection scheme.

[Evil Goblin]

No investment or deposit in a bank is 100% safe. Even if you have your bank deposit guaranteed by the Compensation Scheme you are still subject to inflation risk i.e. the real value of the 100% of your funds you get back will have fallen. There is risk of one sort or another in everything.

[bellyup]

No investment or deposit in a bank is 100% safe. Even if you have your bank deposit guaranteed by the Compensation Scheme you are still subject to inflation risk i.e. the real value of the 100% of your funds you get back will have fallen. There is risk of one sort or another in everything.

 

Inflation is one thing but wholesale loss of funds is another,

Kaupthing depositors in the IOM and the Channel Islands, in the whole of Europe,are the only ones who have not being paid back in full.

 

Is it right for a government to make elderly people who put their trust in a bank in its country to be made to wait years for their much diminshed savings when that same government can help them with little or no cost to itself.

[Tugger]

There is one big depositor in Kaupthing UK that hasn't been paid back in full.

[Theodolite]

No investment or deposit in a bank is 100% safe. Even if you have your bank deposit guaranteed by the Compensation Scheme you are still subject to inflation risk i.e. the real value of the 100% of your funds you get back will have fallen. There is risk of one sort or another in everything.

I don't think this is about 100% safe investments.

 

When the institutions, banks, pension trusts etc. deal with and deposit funds on the Isle of Man then their eyes are wide open to the risk. But when individual depositors lose their money then it is a different kettle of fish.

 

To be fair, the Isle of Man seems well versed at dealing with the individuals as if they were just irritating little mosquitos.