The Great Game Revisted: Ukraine, Russia and the West

[Lxxx]

 

IMO NATO should be disbanded. It was created to address a particular threat that has now gone in spite of the recent acts of a Barack Hussein. NATO is now part of the problem, not a potential solution to any.

 

What is now needed is a body to address the reemerging and rapidly growing threat of jihad.

I agree NATO should have ended with the demise of the Soviet block. Ukraine should be independent, not part of the EU, NATO or Russia, but Russia should be allowed to keep its use of leased facilities in Sevastopol and Crimea.

 

Ukraine crisis: PM Yatsenyuk to seek Nato membership. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28978699

Perpetual war for perpetual peace.

[Lxxx]

 

IMO NATO should be disbanded. It was created to address a particular threat that has now gone in spite of the recent acts of a Barack Hussein. NATO is now part of the problem, not a potential solution to any.

 

What is now needed is a body to address the reemerging and rapidly growing threat of jihad.

I agree NATO should have ended with the demise of the Soviet block. Ukraine should be independent, not part of the EU, NATO or Russia, but Russia should be allowed to keep its use of leased facilities in Sevastopol and Crimea.

 

Ukraine crisis: PM Yatsenyuk to seek Nato membership. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28978699

Perpetual war for perpetual peace.

[Thomas Jefferson]

Perpetual war for perpetual profits.

[Truth Seeker]

NATO planning 'rapid-deployment force' of 10,000 troops to counter Russia.

 

According to the Financial Times, the forces creation will be spearheaded by Britain and involve contributions from Denmark, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Norway, and the Netherlands. Canada is also interested in joining the group, but its not known what its final decision will be. Although no formal announcement has been made, British Prime Minister David Cameron is expected to declare its formation at the upcoming NATO summit in Wales on September 4th.

 

http://rt.com/news/183828-nato-rapid-deployment-force/

[Donald Trumps]

Unlikely it will actually be deployed

[Tarne]

It's getting messy out there, and Europe is looking mighty mighty weak at the minute. Sanctions may not be enough to stop them, and if they aren't, they won't stop at east Ukraine

[woolley]

 

IMO NATO should be disbanded .. What is now needed is a body to address the reemerging and rapidly growing threat of jihad.

Jihad is a major irritation rather than a global threat. They're dangerous and annoying. But they are not going to nuke Europe or North America by accident. It's a different scale of problem. They have no centre which is why they continually morph and schism.

 

Disbanding NATO would surely imply abandoning rather than renewing Atlanticism and the whole move towards a global economy and freedom.

 

ETA: I think the thing is to be subtle - to move change in such a way that it feels natural.

 

So we abandon Atlanticism, the only thing that would give an aggressor on Western Europe pause for thought. Nice one, Pongo. Jihad is a major threat because it is not easily excised from our society. In 1939 the Nazis were across the Channel. We didn't have to look for them around every corner at home. Islamism is a cancer within wrapped around the jugular and developing and growing. Dream on about your global economy and freedom which, even if it came to pass, would be nothing like you imagine.

[pongo]

So we abandon Atlanticism, the only thing that would give an aggressor on Western Europe pause for thought. Nice one, Pongo. Jihad is a major threat because it is not easily excised from our society. In 1939 the Nazis were across the Channel. We didn't have to look for them around every corner at home. Islamism is a cancer within wrapped around the jugular and developing and growing. Dream on about your global economy and freedom which, even if it came to pass, would be nothing like you imagine.

I really have no idea what point you are trying to make. I am not proposing abandoning Atlanticism. Quite the opposite.

 

Frankly NATO could take out ISIS in an afternoon. But it would not be pretty and clever strategic people have probably got better ideas. They are nasty - but they do not pose a threat on the Soviet scale.

[Donald Trumps]

Who'll Nato take on: a) Russia b) Islamic State c) None of the above ?

[woolley]

 

So we abandon Atlanticism, the only thing that would give an aggressor on Western Europe pause for thought. Nice one, Pongo. Jihad is a major threat because it is not easily excised from our society. In 1939 the Nazis were across the Channel. We didn't have to look for them around every corner at home. Islamism is a cancer within wrapped around the jugular and developing and growing. Dream on about your global economy and freedom which, even if it came to pass, would be nothing like you imagine.

I really have no idea what point you are trying to make. I am not proposing abandoning Atlanticism. Quite the opposite.

 

Frankly NATO could take out ISIS in an afternoon. But it would not be pretty and clever strategic people have probably got better ideas. They are nasty - but they do not pose a threat on the Soviet scale.

 

Sorry. I misread you. I agree. But Soviet? Unless you are referring to Putin's training.

[pongo]

Soviet - as in the Soviet Union posed a threat on many different levels. But more than anything they were armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons and also paranoid. As were we. So irrespective of the unlikely possibility that they would embark on world domination - there was a serious possibility that the whole thing would go off more or less by accident. Out of Atlanticism has come a genius for what-if strategy making. ISIS do not have nuclear submarines prowling the waters of the North Atlantic.

 

In many ways ISIS may actually represent the beginning of the end of the middle east being a source of worry. Especially if you start to look at who else hates them. They may very well represent the beginning of the end for that kind of thing - in the same way as the Khmer Rouge, though thoroughly dangerous and nasty, had no long term future. And bit by bit there are fewer and fewer Middle East countries organised enough to threaten peace.

 

With respect to the threat within - the comedy movie Three Lions has this more or less pegged IMO.

[spook]

Pongo, and others. Google 'Dar ul-islam' and visit a number of sites.

[woolley]

With respect to the threat within - the comedy movie Three Lions has this more or less pegged IMO.

You are as wrong as you could possibly be to reduce this threat to comedy.

[Tarne]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Putin issuing a YouTube clip of Angela Merkel sucking him off just to make it clear exactly how his relationship with Europe works!

 

 

If that ever happens, we might as well surrender. He'd be the bravest man on Earth

[pongo]

You are as wrong as you could possibly be to reduce this threat to comedy.

These are important issues. But I think there is a danger of being a bit wet about the nature of the reality of the actual threat.

 

It's a big deal. But not a super big deal.