Cronky Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Thought provoking video and well acted too. Especially as most of the 'actors' work for the Government! The trouble is, it raises more questions that it answers. I stopped to think of the kinds of things I would regard as abuse that I have become aware of over, say, the last five years. Thinks like: Invididuals being hounded off the Island because they don't fit the group. Schools ignoring and covering up physical abuse. Rape victims being shunned by the system. Divorcing couples at each others throats as a result of adverserial divorce proceedings. Public officials suspended for lengthy periods as a result of unproven allegations. Whistle blowers being silenced. Teachers screaming at children and there is nothing the parents can do about it. Intimidation of politicians. Children being severely bullied on social media. False allegations of child abuse that leave families traumatised. Threats against families from social workers. I could go on . . . The trouble is that that the main culprit is often Government itself which has a bullying culture which gets copied in the 'community'. Moreover, when people approach the system for help they are often shunned - especially if they have mental health issues. So, yes, we need to tackle bullying but I wouldn'e be pointing the finger just at families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 Good video, but unless I missed it, no mention of institutional abuse in the public sector or tyrannical management practices in the workplace that makes many people's lives a misery. I've worked with plenty who'd have got a job with the Gestapo. Systematic bullying in the workplace is rife and often the reason for early retirement or long term stress. This video was aimed at individual responsibility, and the bigger picture is a lot more complex than that. No mention either of the abuse tolerated and encouraged in other cultures and religions, but I don't think they wanted to go there. We are though an increasingly multi-cultural society over here and I'd have liked to have seen the presentation show a bit more confidence in our liberal values. Still, a worthwhile video and it raises awareness. Worth watching again as there is a lot in there. Workplace bullying & schools are mentioned as is culture & religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Can you imagine a world without any kind of abuse? It wouldn't have human beings in it. As you no doubt realised, that was why I posed the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 It is a futile and negative outlook that simply views human nature as inclined to abuse, or to kill, or steal, etc. and to therefore conclude that nothing can be done. A decent society, where the rule of law exists, seeks to protect the victim of such activities, even if it cannot alter the human propensity for them. Abuse can certainly be verbal, or expressed through gestures. Monkey gestures in football crowds aimed at a black player, or hissing gas sounds aimed at Spurs or Ajax fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 And other animals are more or less sensitive to the needs of others in their species? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I think it is cases like this which make Woolley's blood boil. I'm not sure, but think I can understand why people are concerned when a company is forced to pay compensation to someone abused by an employee on his tea-break. The person being abusive should show some responsibility for their behaviour, but should the employer also be held responsible as well. I can imagine someone with similar views to Woolley saying this is collective punishment by the thought police. I think the person was being abusive - but I doubt people universally agree with that (Woolley?). But what consequences should that person face, and their employer? I don't think society has agreement on these issues, I'm definitely uncertain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 A company has responsibility for the actions of its employees. I the case you link to, Chinahand, the employee made an insulting gesture to the customer in the shop, and subsequently he insulted the victim as he walked past. In the scale of things, not that bad, but then the amount awarded to the victim reflects that. Clearly there are people outside the consensus view who are angered by such things. So be it. Social progress is rarely universally accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 It is a futile and negative outlook that simply views human nature as inclined to abuse, or to kill, or steal, etc. and to therefore conclude that nothing can be done. It is not negative. It is simply acknowledging reality. The opposite view is futile. We can and should set up sanctions to discourage but we cannot eradicate facets of human nature. @ Chinahand: I'll get back to you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 It is a futile and negative outlook that simply views human nature as inclined to abuse, or to kill, or steal, etc. and to therefore conclude that nothing can be done. It is not negative. It is simply acknowledging reality. The opposite view is futile. We can and should set up sanctions to discourage but we cannot eradicate facets of human nature. @ Chinahand: I'll get back to you!! What we can do is change behaviour through the sanctions you refer to, and thereby lessen the amount of abusive behaviour. But attitudes are able to be changed. I am sixty now, and the consensus on many things has shifted immensely during my lifetime. It is wrong to think in terms of some sort of immutable 'human nature'. Our nature is shaped by our upbringing, education and (with difficulty) by our own intellectual efforts. The generalisation 'human nature' is just the aggregate of the attitudes of a given group of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 And brainwashing changes the consensus on many things too. If you have lived all of your life being conditioned to certain ways of thinking via media, education and peers who have been fed a similar diet it certainly has an effect. Then when your generation has children they will be even more indoctrinated from the home too. Ask yourself how much of the change in attitudes of the last 60 years have been through groundswell change and how much has been top down manipulation. Through it all though, we cannot alter the fact that humans kill, maim and abuse. No amount of mind control can stop that it would seem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 I've got a far more optimistic view of the world. Being a football fan is a good example. I remember being about eight years old, at a match in the 1970's when the adults were all making 'monkey' chants every time a black player touched the ball. I asked why they were doing that as it 'wasn't nice'. I was told that 'anything that put an opposition player off was a good thing' and I was encouraged to join in. Such behaviour has long since been banished from football grounds. Is that because of 'top down manipulation' or 'bottom up, groundswell of opinion'? I think they went hand in hand. Are the racists still racist? Probably but at least they are largely silent or driven underground. The next generations to come along are, generally far more intolerant of abuse than the ones that went before, in part because they weren't exposed to the hatred that went before. Also because they are exposed to positive information and have increased understanding of other people, culture etc. Are football grounds still sexist & homophobic? Yes, but nothing like the way they were thirty years ago. Humans still kill, maim & abuse. Still a long way to go. But heading in the right direction. I believe initiatives like this one help. More importantly, the people behind this initiative are making a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 For the most part my generation has grand-children now, and I am struck by the tolerance, positive attitudes and caring nature of those grandchildren. Progress has been made, and will, hopefully, continue. Your 'brainwashing' and 'indoctrination' is what I would regard as education. What exactly is wrong with educating people against violence and abuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 id be surprised if there were too many anti war demonstrations in the early twentieth century or before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Amazing. Look at the world beyond Western Europe. There is more intolerance than ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Or is it just that we are more aware of it? Specifically in countries we wish to bomb, whilst ignoring it in countries we wish to base our aircraft in/are willing to give us money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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