The Scripture Union Delivering Sex Education in Schools

[guzzi]

http://www.three.fm/news/isle-of-man-news/scripture-union-sex-education-not-religious/

I was frankly shocked to read this and to hear Mr Cregeen's complacent reply.

Why? I note Mr Cregeen's reference to delaying sex and the importance of stable relationships forming part of what is taught, no doubt intended to deflect criticism from the knuckle draggers, but what about same sex relationships, what about abortion, contraception, masturbation, safe sex, pleasure ....

I admired the Norwegian films that someone on here linked to a while back for their refreshing frankness and for getting away from the atmosphere of either smut or deep embarrassment about the subject that often affects our attitudes. 

We ought to be doing better than handing this to religious groups of any kind.

[RIchard Britten]

Anyone involved in this should be forced to resign.

Religious indoctrination (of any religion) in schools should be banned.

[the stinking enigma]

The main problem here is that religious people can actually be arsed voting

[guzzi]

Consider the guilt, shame, furtiveness, corrupted attitudes to one another and general mayhem and joylessness that religion has instilled in kids, the life long harm to many of us as adults.  They really have to be kept out of our Schools. 

[guzzi]

4 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said:

The main problem here is that religious people can actually be arsed voting

 

Can you explain?  I don't immediately see the connection.

[Roger Mexico]

As usual Hansard has more details. Allinson's original question was more generally about the topic of sex education, but he asked in his supplementary:

Quote

Would the Minister agree that if we are going to effectively combat domestic violence and sexual crime, early comprehensive sex and relationship education for boys and girls is essential, and that this is ideally provided by impartial and non-judgemental teachers not necessarily familiar to pupils, rather than schools sometimes relying on faith-based groups based in that same local community, teaching a curriculum that may not be designed by educationalists?

Cregeen waffled a bit, but more detail actually came out in what was presumably meant to be a supportive question from Baker:

Quote

Mr Baker: Could the Minister confirm that, in response to the question from the hon. questioner around faith-based groups helping with relationship education in schools, there are no explicit religious aspects to that education programme; it is a programme, I believe, known as ‘Love Life’ which has gone down extremely well in secondary schools[1], in particular, and actually it is about relationships, not about religion?

The Minister: Yes, Scripture Union deliver Love Life, but with no religion in it. It consists of approximately six sessions for year 10. It includes delaying sex and having stable relationships. When there are any outside speakers they are encouraged to make a written agreement with the school on content and delivery and a member of staff is always in the room.

So it looks as this guff is being directed towards older children (15-16), many of whom may have already made their own decision about 'delaying sex'.  And even if there isn't any 'explicit' religious content ("If you have sex without our permission, Baby Jesus will make your knob fall off"), it's likely to be informed by an evangelical Christian agenda.  

[1]  Though he doesn't say with whom.

[the stinking enigma]

27 minutes ago, guzzi said:

 

Can you explain?  I don't immediately see the connection.

Well, in a small place like this, where not many votes are needed to get in, and religious people can be more arsed to vote, then it's quite simple logic to assume that tynwald will consist of more religious or at least pretending to be more religious type people than what is represented by the majority of the population

[guzzi]

Dr Allinson's wider point should definitely be addressed. He seems to be a clear and progressive voice in a chamber packed with old Masonic farts who probably harbour all sorts of weird shit within their psyches.

The specific, though, is quite easily dealt with. It's wrong, it should stop and the content should be developed and delivered by educators not by church groups. 

[guzzi]

4 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said:

Well, in a small place like this, where not many votes are needed to get in, and religious people can be more arsed to vote, then it's quite simple logic to assume that tynwald will consist of more religious or at least pretending to be more religious type people than what is represented by the majority of the population

Thanks.  Agree that it's quite possible for special interest groups all sorts to do this, and some of what Tynwald does, for example maintaining shameful outdated laws on abortion suggest a pro Christian bias. It isn't across the board, though, as Dr Allinson's election demonstrates.  

I certainly agree that the turnouts for elections are very low, but I think that is very much to be expected where our vote counts for nothing in terms of national policy. For the most part, we vote for individuals with independent manifestos. Then, to add insult to injury,  those we elect are promptly bought out by the system of departmental membership.

The 2016 general election was heralded as 'wind of change' but I would hope to see some evidence of that on this issue, and indeed on abortion.

[Shake me up Judy]

There shouldn't be any sex education in schools beyond the simple biology of the whole thing. Even when well intentioned it can impart all sorts of muddle-headedness or an idealised and romanticised view of sex and relationships with exaggerated or unreal expectations for often self-obsessed young teenagers. It also normalises teen sex when it's better left alone until emotional maturity and awareness has developed. Give kids the basic facts but leave it at that, and certainly don't allow religion to enter into it. Cregeen has proved already that he knows nothing about education. 

[Barrie Stevens]

I would love to go back to my secondary school and watch my teachers deliver that sort of education! Laugh a minute!...Probably less truancy as well!

It was all taboo and off limits back then. I recall one boy called Andrew Hales age 16 who pulled out his hanky and a packet of three fell on the floor in front of the Art Teacher Mrs Allan...

She marched him off to the Headmaster who gave him three strokes of the cane on his hand. One for each "Johnny"!...

I used to see these drawings on the toilet walls and for years I thought you got a girl pregnant by putting your finger in her ear...

[Fuller K Rapp]

"There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses" Ezekiel 23:20

Is this the kind of trashy scripture the Scripture Union read out during sex education classes?

[Barrie Stevens]

2 hours ago, guzzi said:

http://www.three.fm/news/isle-of-man-news/scripture-union-sex-education-not-religious/

I was frankly shocked to read this and to hear Mr Cregeen's complacent reply.

Why? I note Mr Cregeen's reference to delaying sex and the importance of stable relationships forming part of what is taught, no doubt intended to deflect criticism from the knuckle draggers, but what about same sex relationships, what about abortion, contraception, masturbation, safe sex, pleasure ....

I admired the Norwegian films that someone on here linked to a while back for their refreshing frankness and for getting away from the atmosphere of either smut or deep embarrassment about the subject that often affects our attitudes. 

We ought to be doing better than handing this to religious groups of any kind.

"Wanking" is in the Bible...."The sin of Onan" and the correct medical term is "Onanism"...https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=15&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjkiKzMsMTTAhVHIsAKHa5vCzAQFgiHATAO&url=https%3A%2F%2Fchristianity.stackexchange.com%2Fquestions%2F5316%2Fwas-onan-really-struck-dead-by-god-for-masturbating&usg=AFQjCNFI1h6YpkgEHavMqbpia5qw2W3zJg

Apparently Big G killed poor old Onan for "bashing the Bishop"

[Barrie Stevens]

2 minutes ago, Fuller K Rapp said:

"There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses" Ezekiel 23:20

Is this the kind of trashy scripture the Scripture Union read out during sex education classes?

Cor! Hung like a donkey! I thought they only did donkey shows in Mombasa (Or did in my day anyway!)

[RIchard Britten]

37 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said:

It also normalises teen sex

Teen sex is happening regardless whether you give them sex education classes or not.

Better they are well informed about pregnancy and sexual health than ignoring it.