Stephen Hawking on the NHS

[benl]

When I listened to his speech I thought the underlying argument was the abuse of science, selecting only papers (namely Freemantle et al.) that supported his viewpoint and negating those that said anything to the contrary. This undermines scientific principles and he attributes it to the 'post-truth' state of the world. I think he is reasonably well qualified to make those points being a world-leading scientist. 

SH even attacks the NHS saying there is a need for 7-day services, but the changes to be made should be based on a body of evidence, not just single studies. Again, I think these are fair points, it's only more political when he says the extension of services must be resourced. 

From friends who have worked at Addenbrooke's SH has been a patient advocate to improve services. He's seen his fair share of healthcare and I guess this also makes him more qualified than most to comment. 

JH position is a poison chalice. The NHS probably is underfunded relative to expectations but no one has the hunger to challenge the latter part. He's unpopular but if he's replaced it will look like a victory to the BMA and look like the Conservative Party are acknowledging they disagree with his decisions. Short of an economic catastrophe, I don't think any party would truly dismantle the NHS, it would be political suicide, though the river does erode the mountain. 

[RIchard Britten]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/nov/27/nhs-england-millions-pounds-private-companies

"Firms with ties to the Tories did well. Care UK, one of the country’s biggest private health firms, received £112m from the NHS in a single year, 90% of which was for the provision of healthcare. The wife of the company’s former chairman John Nash made a personal donation of £21,000 to Andrew Lansley, the architect of the coalition’s NHS policy, to fund his office while in opposition."

[ballaughbiker]

So do you think private firms working for the NHS should make no profit? 

 

[RIchard Britten]

8 hours ago, ballaughbiker said:

So do you think private firms working for the NHS should make no profit? 

 

There is a clear difference between making a profit and gauging a system to death.

[ballaughbiker]

Indeed and I suppose it depends on your political stance which way you would want to describe it.

Nothing is free in life despite some thinking it is or should be (read someone else pays).

[RIchard Britten]

3 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said:

Indeed and I suppose it depends on your political stance which way you would want to describe it.

Nothing is free in life despite some thinking it is or should be (read someone else pays).

If you think it right that the NHS is charged 5000% markup on a bag of saline solution, then you are part of the problem not the solution (bad dum tish)

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1350257/Now-NHS-pays-1-000-bottle-salt-water.html

"Last week, Henrietta Spink wrote in the Mail about her shock on discovering that the liquid ­paracetamol prescribed to her son cost the NHS a ­staggering £175 for just 500ml."

"One of the most popular specials is a liquid form of simvastatin, a drug to lower ­cholesterol. The NHS spent more than £3 ­million on around 14,000 liquid formulations of this in 2009, at a cost of £208 each (the equivalent amount in pill form costs £1.12)."
 

[ballaughbiker]

You are entirely aware that my point is general and you are trying to stretch the logic in it to apply it to that wail specific in order to have a pop. 

I am therefore not part of the problem as you allege despite you covering yourself with the initial conditional.

 

 

 

[RIchard Britten]

4 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said:

You are entirely aware that my point is general and you are trying to stretch the logic in it to apply it to that wail specific in order to have a pop. 

I am therefore not part of the problem as you allege despite you covering yourself with the initial conditional.

But you attempted to justify the wastage by saying that it is okay that the companies are making a profit.

[ballaughbiker]

You misunderstand. Again. I have not tried to justify wastage but companies do generally have to make a profit. That is not somehow inherently evil.

If the profit is excessive then management has options eg buy elsewhere. That is the benefit of a free market. If they choose not to, then perhaps fault is not where you or the wail would like it to be. This specific case, I'd wager, is not as simple as the headline suggests. Such reporting rarely is but it only has to sell one day's news.

To clarify, I want the NHS to survive and I by no means support all JH is doing, but if we continue long term with the wonderful free at the point of use principle, we are in for a hard time. 

[RIchard Britten]

8 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said:

You misunderstand. Again. I have not tried to justify wastage but companies do generally have to make a profit. That is not somehow inherently evil.

If the profit is excessive then management has options eg buy elsewhere.

See the link I provided about Virgin Care sueing the NHS because they decided not to use them, effectively using "lawfare" to bully them.

Again, there is a difference between profit and excessive profit at the expense of the public purse.

[ballaughbiker]

Yes I read it and on face value it seems entirely unsupportable. However you are again using a specific to argue the general principle that any private care integration within the NHS is wrong. 

This 2 person discussion must be boring the ass off people so I'll leave you to it. It's a nice day up north.

 

[RIchard Britten]

13 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said:

Yes I read it and on face value it seems entirely unsupportable. However you are again using a specific to argue the general principle that any private care integration within the NHS is wrong. 

This 2 person discussion must be boring the ass off people so I'll leave you to it. It's a nice day up north.

Well I live in South Dorset and its a bit grey here.

[paswt]

1 hour ago, RIchard Britten said:

Well I live in South Dorset and its a bit grey here.

Was quite "sunny" before you lived there ?

[RIchard Britten]

Just now, paswt said:

Was quite "sunny" before you lived there ?

You see the funny thing about the weather...it constantly changes.

And oddly enough, a persons location has no bearing on those weather conditions.

 

But thanks for that invaluable input.

[La Colombe]

On 8/19/2017 at 9:48 PM, dilligaf said:

I agree. I never understood this following of Hawking at all. I feel very sorry for him, but that is all.

 

On 8/19/2017 at 9:57 PM, dilligaf said:

Hawking is a twat and does not carry any weight in any debate.

He has done very well out of the NHS and all this political stuff is rubbish. He should just be grateful for what has received and STFU

 

On 8/19/2017 at 10:05 PM, dilligaf said:

If Hawking was not quadriplegic or whatever, he would not get a second glance or a listening ear.

Like I said before, I feel very sorry for him, but do not rate him at all.

 I saw this and thought about this thread. Very good. Manx Forums lol.