IOM Covid removing restrictions

[TheTeapot]

1 minute ago, Nom de plume said:

Wise move, it’ll be spent.

The real marker is death per head of population as to who made the best fist of it.

But they wouldn't have done it if the economy was bubbling along nicely. Governments don't hand out money to the plebs.

And is the death per head really the best way of 'keeping score'? I'm not so sure. Most of the resistance to restrictions has been the economy argument. If the deaths were the main measure then much stricter and longer lockdowns would have been enforced everywhere.

 

[Nom de plume]

1 minute ago, TheTeapot said:

But they wouldn't have done it if the economy was bubbling along nicely. Governments don't hand out money to the plebs.

And is the death per head really the best way of 'keeping score'? I'm not so sure. Most of the resistance to restrictions has been the economy argument. If the deaths were the main measure then much stricter and longer lockdowns would have been enforced everywhere.

 

The economy argument was strong but not the 100% driver from me.

I’ve always been about testing, protecting or shielding the very small percentage of the population who were susceptible, employing coherent track & trace, reducing Q periods and allowing movement.

[Cascarino]

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/situation-updates/weekly-maps-coordinated-restriction-free-movement

EU traffic lights system in place now has less restrictions on Ireland, but IOM Govt do not appear to have anything in place to differentiate between travellers from different jurisdictions. The information is available so it just needs a framework.

[TheTeapot]

1 minute ago, Nom de plume said:

The economy argument was strong but not the 100% driver from me.

I’ve always been about testing, protecting or shielding the very small percentage of the population who were susceptible, employing coherent track & trace, reducing Q periods and allowing movement.

I thought there was space to relax our movement restrictions in the summer, although it would have been tough going back again. 

The thing with Jersey must be that somewhere their track and trace thing has failed, cos for quite a while, like months, they were having a few cases coming in through travel and that seemed to be fine, no on Island transmission, no hospital admissions etc, but then they started picking up a couple in the community and now its 40 odd a day. 

I've said it before plenty, as have others, I really hope our government have spent the time getting our contact tracing properly prepared. We've had that little of oddness with the false positive at Zurich and then that little cluster associated with the hospital, but not really much practice outside that. What we see happening over there shows how easily it could happen here too. More lessons to be learned I guess, and as we all know, our government is a great fan of lessons to be learnt. They've learnt a lot of them over the years apparently.

[Nom de plume]

2 minutes ago, Cascarino said:

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/situation-updates/weekly-maps-coordinated-restriction-free-movement

EU traffic lights system in place now has less restrictions on Ireland, but IOM Govt do not appear to have anything in place to differentiate between travellers from different jurisdictions. The information is available so it just needs a framework.

You’ve not been listening to Quayle, Ashford or Allinson have you?

Our CURRENT policy is Covid eradication meaning we will NOT be dropping 14 day quarantine from ANY jurisdiction (aside possibly Guernsey) until the virus is extinguished.

Therefore as professor Jonathan Van Tam stated yesterday, Corona virus is here forever, meaning we are here forever.

[Happier diner]

37 minutes ago, Nom de plume said:

Still here.

The trade off was relative freedom to travel for many weeks & allowing their economy to paddle through without the need for huge taxpayer cash injections.

We can all sit back at the end of this & make an informed opinion on who made the best of it.

Fair enough and well done for speaking up

It will be interesting to see though if their benefits of keeping the economy and tourism ticking over will be outweighed by the dis benefit of a big lockdown just before Christmas. 

[Nom de plume]

10 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

I thought there was space to relax our movement restrictions in the summer, although it would have been tough going back again. 

The thing with Jersey must be that somewhere their track and trace thing has failed, cos for quite a while, like months, they were having a few cases coming in through travel and that seemed to be fine, no on Island transmission, no hospital admissions etc, but then they started picking up a couple in the community and now its 40 odd a day. 

I've said it before plenty, as have others, I really hope our government have spent the time getting our contact tracing properly prepared. We've had that little of oddness with the false positive at Zurich and then that little cluster associated with the hospital, but not really much practice outside that. What we see happening over there shows how easily it could happen here too. More lessons to be learned I guess, and as we all know, our government is a great fan of lessons to be learnt. They've learnt a lot of them over the years apparently.

What is their student population?

If all else fails, blame it on them ......

Edited December 3, 2020 by Nom de plume

[Banker]

1 hour ago, Cascarino said:

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/situation-updates/weekly-maps-coordinated-restriction-free-movement

EU traffic lights system in place now has less restrictions on Ireland, but IOM Govt do not appear to have anything in place to differentiate between travellers from different jurisdictions. The information is available so it just needs a framework.

We are the only jurisdiction worldwide that’s doesn’t have a plan with traffic lights system eg if rates are below 100 per 100k you isolate for 7 days , under 30 you just test on arrival etc

[Roger Mexico]

1 hour ago, TheTeapot said:

The thing with Jersey must be that somewhere their track and trace thing has failed, cos for quite a while, like months, they were having a few cases coming in through travel and that seemed to be fine, no on Island transmission, no hospital admissions etc, but then they started picking up a couple in the community and now its 40 odd a day. 

No the truth is they had a bad system from the start - relying on testing on arrival only.  It's obviously not as bad a relying on a piece of paper saying you had a test three days ago, but it's still a system that is going to let a percentage of people carrying the virus through.

Now when the number of people coming to Jersey with the virus were comparatively low (because numbers in the UK were low) this didn't really matter.  The likelihood of an infected person getting into the community in a particular week was low.  But once the numbers rose in the UK it was inevitable that there would be community spread and track and trace systems would be overwhelmed.  Then the only solution becomes a proper lockdown as we saw in the Spring, not the halfhearted measures the UK has been dithering about recently, which only slow things down a bit.

[Banker]

1 minute ago, Roger Mexico said:

No the truth is they had a bad system from the start - relying on testing on arrival only.  It's obviously not as bad a relying on a piece of paper saying you had a test three days ago, but it's still a system that is going to let a percentage of people carrying the virus through.

Now when the number of people coming to Jersey with the virus were comparatively low (because numbers in the UK were low) this didn't really matter.  The likelihood of an infected person getting into the community in a particular week was low.  But once the numbers rose in the UK it was inevitable that there would be community spread and track and trace systems would be overwhelmed.  Then the only solution becomes a proper lockdown as we saw in the Spring, not the halfhearted measures the UK has been dithering about recently, which only slow things down a bit.

I also thought Jersey had a good system but they failed badly when they let people carry on as normal whilst waiting for test results which we’re taking 2/3 days in some instances which were then positive. They were also not strict enough on the isolation rules , had several large events not in line with rules and have now paid the price.

the recent Uk lockdown does seem to have reduced rates a lot particularly areas like Liverpool so I don’t agree that it’s not working 

[TheTeapot]

12 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

No the truth is they had a bad system from the start

The truth is they had a brave and risky system, certainly much braver and riskier than ours. I can totally understand why they did it, they must be gutted.

[Roger Mexico]

1 minute ago, Banker said:

We are the only jurisdiction worldwide that’s doesn’t have a plan with traffic lights system eg if rates are below 100 per 100k you isolate for 7 days , under 30 you just test on arrival etc

No there are others - New Zealand for example and a lot of others in the Far East and Oceania who use a simple 14-day quarantine for everyone.  While there have been proposals to change this, it's often along the lines of tightening up and adding restrictions, such as prohibiting arrivals completely from some countries or insisting on pre-testing[1]. 

Of course in Europe with numerous states and land borders, control is always going to be more difficult and a standardised systems seems to be emerging.  But it may be less suitable for island nations such as ourselves

 

[1]  This doesn't lessen quarantine, just cut down on the numbers who will will need extra treatment while isolating.

[Banker]

8 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

No there are others - New Zealand for example and a lot of others in the Far East and Oceania who use a simple 14-day quarantine for everyone.  While there have been proposals to change this, it's often along the lines of tightening up and adding restrictions, such as prohibiting arrivals completely from some countries or insisting on pre-testing[1]. 

Of course in Europe with numerous states and land borders, control is always going to be more difficult and a standardised systems seems to be emerging.  But it may be less suitable for island nations such as ourselves

 

[1]  This doesn't lessen quarantine, just cut down on the numbers who will will need extra treatment while isolating.

Ok we’re in a small minority then!! And unique in Europe as far as I know with Guernsey also having one & testing on arrival 

[Happier diner]

I think the NZ system is pretty tough. Makes us look positively reckless!

Don't they still make you quarantine (Comis style) in a government approved location and even then only if you are a resident or citizen

[Banker]

5 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

I think the NZ system is pretty tough. Makes us look positively reckless!

Don't they still make you quarantine (Comis style) in a government approved location and even then only if you are a resident or citizen

Yes but having been there , it’s a lot larger than Iom with a lot more to do than the rock!!!