Shake me up Judy

That end of the prom used to be really beautiful, and we let it go. First they knocked down the Derby Castle. Then they built Summerland. Look at it now. The Luftwaffe couldn't have done a better job than our planners and politicians. A national disgrace.

I think that although it was in many ways a terrible and tragic accident, there was also a strong suggestion of possible criminal negligence surrounding the whole Summerland disaster, and there would surely have been the possibility of lawsuits if it had happened today. There was very little accountability in the IOM then (or now even) and I think that the current 'memorial' stone, little more than a bootjack and footscraper, hidden away in the garden at the bottom of Summerhill, could be seen to say a lot about the wish, by certain parties, to make the whole thing go away. Arguably, they even conned many of the public into an unwitting act of collective amnesia. On a positive note, it's nice to see that they're finally doing the right thing.

Payback time for the money we creamed out of the UK film industry ?

I can assure you Irishone that there are many, many people on this Island that care about you and what happened that awful night. As a Manx person I am ashamed that there is no decent memorial to those who were affected by, or who lost their lives or loved ones in this tragedy. The Steve Hislop statue and memorial garden that looks out over the Summerland site is far more beautiful than the pathetic stone hidden away in a tiny garden at the foot of Summerhill. I don't know what it is about the tragedy but I suspect it's something to do with a feeling that perhaps it could have been avoided and a perception that there are questions left unanswered. I was very touched by your interview in the documentary, and if we'd known you were coming I'm sure you'd have felt more welcomed. Perhaps if and when our authorities are shamed or embarrassed into erecting a decent and fitting memorial, the Manx people will stand with you next time and we'll all take a few moments to remember.

It's wrong in several ways. What happens to this data that is collected on every parent that brings their child to the hospital ? How long is it kept for ? What assurances do we have ? Where do we draw the line on privacy, trust, freedoms and liberty, parental authority and responsibility ? Would those who see no inherent problem here be happy for health professionals or the police to have automatic right of access to their home for instance ?

The fact that this question is asked at all, and to every parent, is a bit of a clue here to the wider thread isn't it.

Um Big White Chief probably gets wampum for every referral he makes. How's your arm by the way ?

It's been done already Monkey boy. In the 1950s for instance, there was a whole industry in North America medicalising and giving scientific creedence to theories of low I.Q in black Americans. There were all sorts of studies, statistics, 'learned scholars', textbooks, journals etc., that 'proved' this to be the case. It formed the basis of American educational policy for years. I wonder if some of our chums have an opinion on that one ?

Are you "very sceptical" about all this then? Yup. I've never met the child yet who given the latest electronic child-minding device didn't change in an instant from a hyperactive ferret to a passive and self absorbed narcissist. What's that all about then ? I didn't say I necessarily blamed 'bad' parenting. I said it was changes in parenting, schooling, socialisation etc.

Even if there is scientific and medical 'evidence' for this condition (and I'm very sceptical) it wouldn't explain the multiplier effect of changes in childrearing, parenting and schooling which effectively have created a vacuum in which bad behaviour can express itself and flourish without sanction or judgement. Instead, bad behaviour is met with empathy, support, reward, funding, and the rationalisation provided by science and medicine, with its new cult of believers. I think someone got it right a while back when they described it as total bollocks.

Thanks for taking the trouble Declan, much appreciated and it makes for interesting comparisons. The overall results more or less reflected my own response too.

Could we keep this thread in English please ? The arguments put are interesting and knowledgeable but it's sometimes like listening to a roomful of lawyers (Yes, I do know that John is one). On other threads I have to wade through the barbed wire of acronyms and text speak and end up totally switched off. Don't get me started on the students union politics society either....