b4mbi

supply/demand? If the demand is not there for a passenger sailing EVERY day, then why put one on?!! Sure, it's convenient being able to travel any day you like but is it totally essential that you should have the possibility to take yourself and your car off the island 365 days a year? I doubt that if there was no passenger / car service on say tuesdays and thursdays during the winter months that a lot of people would be inconvenienced? Surely if you're taking the car away, this usually involves some form of forward planning.

Megan, who is telling you running passenger only services are not commercially viable???? The IOMSPC are because it doesn't generate enough through them alone to support their flawed debt financed business model. Maybe a totally different story with other operators who are not restricted in their scheduling and do not have such a heavy debt burden to finance...

Nail, head, hit. I hope the IOMG had the foresight to write a clause about strike action into the User Agreement i.e. that should IOMSPC employees strike, then the exclusivity of the UA to use the linkspan falls away...... here's hoping, otherwise potentially disruption to car traffic on ferry... "spirit of the agreement" talk is just nonsense. If they had intended to make it blanket coverage for all types of frieght then that's what should have been written into the agreement. It appears the IOMSPC management, owners and bankers have ALL overlooked this aspect and therefore the blame lays solely at their collective doors for signing the UA which they erroneously thought gave them exclusivity. This is where the IOMSPC employees should be directing their anger as they've been sold up the Mersey by their owners and management.

My understanding of a personal guarantee is that directors guarantee with their own private assets the performance of the company. i.e. if company doesn't perform (on say a loan obligation), the bank can pursue the private assets of the director in order to recover costs as the director has put up his personal assets as a guarantee of performance of the company. Separate issue to what I think you mean which is where the company pays for D&O insurance on behalf of the directors which protects directors/officers private assets in case they are sued for negligence by any of the company's stakeholders. Well, I think some equity shareholders will be about to realise that the value of their shares can go down as well as up

OK good points. Part of my job is exactly this area..... As at 31/12/2008 the accounts (already linked earlier in this thread) for IOMSPC show that at that time the company was registered owner of Ben-my-Chree (IOM Flag) and Mannanan (IOM Flag) (some c.£22m additions in 2008) and according to my info from an industry subscription website, they both still are. (Snaefell is showing as flagged in Liverpool and registered owner being MIOM1 Ltd) I really don't think directors of IOMSPC or it's holding company MIOM would have been stupid enough to give the bank personal guarantees, in any case I doubt the individual directors would have sufficient assets to cover anywhere near the security level required for c. £200m borrowing. I can't envisage a situation where the bankers have inadequate security, so certaintly they will have first priority mortgages over all of the vessels, then maybe they will have Corporate Guarantee with a group company further up the structure that has sufficient assets or it is possible that it holds an assignment of earnings from the operating company IOMSPC. Certaintly, IOMSPC as it stands is between a rock and a hard place, with its obligations under the User Agreement and its (newly refinanced?) debt to the Bank. I think it will boil down to a question of price, what will / would someone pay for the company, that would minimise losses to the bank, yet secure the service levels/jobs.

It's my opinion that under no circumstances should there be a Government bailout using taxpayers money (in any case, is there anything left?!) Whether or not the Government had the power to force owners to sell the IOM operating company (IOMSPC) would be interesting. Presumably, if IOMSPC want to renegotiate the User Agreement, then a condition of the renegotiation would be the sale of the operating company and safeguarding of jobs for a minimum amount of time or payoff? However, for services to be maintained with current fleet, the Portugese Bank needs to be involved as they must have a first priority mortgage charge over both the Ben and the Manannan and then depends what other securities it has? Corporate guarantees from IOMSPC or another group company?

Thanks for that. I hadn't spotted that note to the accounts. So the reserves have gone from £23.9 million in 2007 to £7.7 million at the end of 2008. Wonder what the position is now? Presumably they can't continue to keep paying big dividends if there are limited reserves? yeah correct, you can't pay divdends out of share premium account it's illegal. So distributable reserves of £7.7m c/f from 2008 y/e plus retained profit for 2009 (whatever that was) would be max dividend possible for 2009. which means shareholders likely have BIG problem, because now operating company doesn't generate enough CASH to service the interest (via the dividends) on the borrowing. Cash flow statement would be telling.... even rough calculation on borrowing of £200m at best at 5% - £10m per annum interest costs.... means either a) shareholders provide additonal funding to MIOM to pay interest b) they default on interest payments, meaning bank could call in loans... looking forward, how the hell the £200m capital will be repaid is anyones guess... some red faced bankers in portugal facing big write offs.... Anyone care to put a value on IOMSPC at moment???

care to elaborate jimbms?

Hmm. Whilst I have little sympathy for their current situation which is largely of their own making, whatever you think of the company, 180 years of continuous service to the Island should not be overlooked so easily. It is difficult to see a way out of the hole they find themselves in having to maintain high margins to service their debt, but having lost a significant revenue stream. Their debt must have been reorganised start October as there are various mortgages and charges registered against the MIOM 1 Ltd group company in the companies registry. Sad as I am, their group accounts for 2010 and in future for 2011 would make very interesting reading. Anyone got a copy they could PM me?!! A good solution would be for the company to be owned locally (vested interest) and run as a not-for-profit organisation (non governmental) This would provide cheapest fares / freight rates possible,whilst ensuring that a vital lifeline for the island is maintained. However finding such an altruistic shareholder may prove difficult!! Anyone want to make this suggestion to Mr Whittaker as his legacy to the Island?

Not competing on a level playing field???!!!!!!!! hahahaahhaha! Desperate claims. There is NOTHING stopping IOMSPC from starting a lift on / lift off service!!! Plainly their main customers thought they were being royally shafted on freight prices and services. Which IOMSPC needed to do to service debt financing for their flawed business model, the main flaw being the UA which they erroneously thought gave them a freight monopoly. Mr Gawne is right to say IOMSPC should not have any special treatment.

And why should it ? Any vessel which meets international port authority and other regulatory standards in general should be allowed to operate. There should be a free market. The IOM is supposed to be all about freedom and opportunity. Yes, but of course but by agreeing to the UA the IOMG were trying to secure a minimum standard and frequency of passenger service, which they have done, but to the now apparent financial detriment of IOMSPC and its owners. Remains to be seen if the minimum requirements of the UA are sufficient for the general public and of course if IOMSPC can actually fulfill them on its reduced revenues. Of course general public will be disgruntled if costs increase, frequency of sailings decrease and demand of Government that "something be done" to put pressure on for a renegotiation. Wouldn't want to be the bank who has provided the facility to MIOM, wonder what securities they have over the borrowing?

Exactly, so they overvalued the UA, paid over the odds, and now IOMSPC and it's owners will suffer the financial conseqences.

This. Fault lies with IOMSPC BoD and/or shareholder investors that approved the UA on it's existing terms, if those terms did not provide full exclusivity for all "containerised" freight traffic through Douglas (or any other Manx port for that matter), which it is obvious that it didn't. The UA in its existing form must have been made avaiable to the investors before they invested, so it looks like a really poor investment decision paying £225m for a company with physical assets of less than 1/10th of that. Sure there is value in the UA, but it appears not £200m...... would be most interesting to see the UA and it's exact terms and who can terminate / vary it. Presumably if MW asking for variation in it, then IOMG have power to cancel it and vary so that any freight operator using linkspan pays for the privilige and then income from that is used as subsidy to passenger operators (as per Cheeky boys suggestion), very much depends on figures though.....

eh? Blue nose from too much booze, have you never seen bar flies with blue noses. No, I always thought they had big red noses from too much booze? Have you got a roo nose?

eh?

I did, but from a distance so didn't get chance to say hello, especially to a fellow blue nose!

can we build a space elevator please? That'd be neat. Sort of like a mono-rail but vertical.

Just John, NSC pool changing rooms last night..... Ooer missus!!!

Quality! :lol

that is absolutely brilliant. What a genius!

Cret (or Jim?) hastily putting tie on whilst walking to a funeral in Port Erin

I'll put £5 on them having being drawn using crayons. Congrats Mr T, you win £5

For selected products, i agree bees! As people become more affluent they are less price sensitive, and the hassle of obtaining from internet vendors (especially high value / electrical / white / bulky goods, with all the extra delivery charges) can be significant. I ordered some furniture from an internet firm, which subsequently disappeared without ever delivering. I got most of my cash back though luckily. Plus, dare I say, it can be quite fun shopping.... no.. better hadn't..

shortly after you left I think about 9:30?? ... steve colley and his missus sat on your seats, so we had double celebrity viewing on offer!!! Don't think anyone else in the restaurant really recognised him as he had thick moustache and was wearing a beret. Not wanting to disturb him and alert everyone else in restaurant to his presence, we left him alone, aren't we good! To be fair that Zelwegger does smile an awful lot though... in a sort of mad to herself sort of way

not sure but thought I saw g89 in papparatzi on Friday ?? if you were getting strange looks from another table in there, you know who it was now!!! Apologies but you know when you see someone and can't place them ??? Anyway if it was you, did you leave before Ewan McGregor arrived ??? B)