The Sick Moon Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 With a powerful prod from government, electric city cars and motorbikes could take off. They'll need a long runway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 The technology has come a long way since 2009, the batteries are now more reliable, lighter and cheaper. For example, a new battery for a Toyota Prius in 2009 was c.£5,500, the price is now c.£800. They never really need a battery replaced unless it has been damaged in some way. Electric vehicles are becoming more practical but are unfortunately still expensive and boring. The difficulty seems to be that despite the UK subsidising electric cars to the tune of £5,000 each, they still haven't caught on properly. The answer at the moment appears to be hybrids, these are proving themselves in motorsport and road use but are still an expensive option when placed next to a petrol car. I'm not a TT Zero fan but I think it could be made more interesting by adopting hybrid technology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Haven't seen too many electric bikes on the track either. 7 started the race this year. Lets face it - it's a dead duck. Actually, seven is a good number. Only once have there been more entries. But it's certainly not becoming as popular or successful as some people imagined it would. Cost must be the major reason for that, and until more bikes hit the roads, costs will remain stratospheric. Mind you, a Brompton bike race might attract more entrants. There are quite a few of this around. Just to put the record straight 2009. Entries. 11. Finishers. 6 2010. ". 9. " 5 2011. ". 8. ". 5 2012. ". 10. ". 4 2013. ". 10. ". 8 2014. ". 7. ". 6 2015. ". 9. ". 6 Total Entries - 64. Total Finishers - 40 If there is any cost that should be looked into it should be this event. The two bikes that finished 1st and 2nd are streets ahead of the rest of the field in development and speed. If either finished they were going to win. This has been going for seven years now , is boring, a forgone conclusion in its results, costs a fortune to run, and takes up valuable Practice Time from the main Races. I can only assume money ( or the promise of it) is involved or the Manx Government would have no part of it. I can only see one future for it when the new TT Organisers are announced - hopefully, it will be gone I totally disagree with you on this. This period of electric bike racing, and the limited number of manufacturers, is analogous to the period of petrol driven machines in the very very early years of motorcycle racing.This technology will develop much further in the next 10 years, and very soon electric bikes may be on a par with their petrol driven counterparts. Who amongst us thought that in a few short years, that they would be achieving the kind of lap times we are seeing now? More manufacturers will come, certainly as the technology improves and becomes more widespread. I would even suggest that in 15 to 30 years these races could begin to dominate the TT races. And as with petrol driven machines, much of the development will evolve around racing. But the technology has actually developed very little in the last six years, so what makes you think the next ten will be different? Unless there is a radical shift in battery technology, which seems unlikely, there will be little technologcal progress Motors have gone about as far as they can go. The only hope is that governents do more to encourage electric car and bike use, and this will bring economies of scale and lower prices. Batteries have been around for longer than the internal combustion engine. Even lithium batteries have been with us for 24 years, so it is unlikely we are going to see anything like the rapid development that characterised production of the early moto cars. I think you are underestimating the technology, and the infrastructure being built to support it. It might be relatively expensive and limited at present because of the economies of scale, but in 20 years time, with a couple more energy crises no doubt, I still think it will really start to take off. Perhaps in 20 years electric vehicles and hybrid vehicles being over 30% of the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxie44 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Haven't seen too many electric bikes on the track either. 7 started the race this year. Lets face it - it's a dead duck. Actually, seven is a good number. Only once have there been more entries. But it's certainly not becoming as popular or successful as some people imagined it would. Cost must be the major reason for that, and until more bikes hit the roads, costs will remain stratospheric. Mind you, a Brompton bike race might attract more entrants. There are quite a few of this around. Just to put the record straight 2009. Entries. 11. Finishers. 6 2010. ". 9. " 5 2011. ". 8. ". 5 2012. ". 10. ". 4 2013. ". 10. ". 8 2014. ". 7. ". 6 2015. ". 9. ". 6 Total Entries - 64. Total Finishers - 40 If there is any cost that should be looked into it should be this event. The two bikes that finished 1st and 2nd are streets ahead of the rest of the field in development and speed. If either finished they were going to win. This has been going for seven years now , is boring, a forgone conclusion in its results, costs a fortune to run, and takes up valuable Practice Time from the main Races. I can only assume money ( or the promise of it) is involved or the Manx Government would have no part of it. I can only see one future for it when the new TT Organisers are announced - hopefully, it will be gone I totally disagree with you on this. This period of electric bike racing, and the limited number of manufacturers, is analogous to the period of petrol driven machines in the very very early years of motorcycle racing.This technology will develop much further in the next 10 years, and very soon electric bikes may be on a par with their petrol driven counterparts. Who amongst us thought that in a few short years, that they would be achieving the kind of lap times we are seeing now? More manufacturers will come, certainly as the technology improves and becomes more widespread. I would even suggest that in 15 to 30 years these races could begin to dominate the TT races. And as with petrol driven machines, much of the development will evolve around racing. But the technology has actually developed very little in the last six years, so what makes you think the next ten will be different? Unless there is a radical shift in battery technology, which seems unlikely, there will be little technologcal progress Motors have gone about as far as they can go. The only hope is that governents do more to encourage electric car and bike use, and this will bring economies of scale and lower prices. Batteries have been around for longer than the internal combustion engine. Even lithium batteries have been with us for 24 years, so it is unlikely we are going to see anything like the rapid development that characterised production of the early moto cars. I think you are underestimating the technology, and the infrastructure being built to support it. It might be relatively expensive and limited at present because of the economies of scale, but in 20 years time, with a couple more energy crises no doubt, I still think it will really start to take off. Perhaps in 20 years electric vehicles and hybrid vehicles being over 30% of the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Bloat quote fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxie44 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Haven't seen too many electric bikes on the track either. 7 started the race this year. Lets face it - it's a dead duck. Actually, seven is a good number. Only once have there been more entries. But it's certainly not becoming as popular or successful as some people imagined it would. Cost must be the major reason for that, and until more bikes hit the roads, costs will remain stratospheric. Mind you, a Brompton bike race might attract more entrants. There are quite a few of this around. Just to put the record straight 2009. Entries. 11. Finishers. 6 2010. ". 9. " 5 2011. ". 8. ". 5 2012. ". 10. ". 4 2013. ". 10. ". 8 2014. ". 7. ". 6 2015. ". 9. ". 6 Total Entries - 64. Total Finishers - 40 If there is any cost that should be looked into it should be this event. The two bikes that finished 1st and 2nd are streets ahead of the rest of the field in development and speed. If either finished they were going to win. This has been going for seven years now , is boring, a forgone conclusion in its results, costs a fortune to run, and takes up valuable Practice Time from the main Races. I can only assume money ( or the promise of it) is involved or the Manx Government would have no part of it. I can only see one future for it when the new TT Organisers are announced - hopefully, it will be gone I totally disagree with you on this. This period of electric bike racing, and the limited number of manufacturers, is analogous to the period of petrol driven machines in the very very early years of motorcycle racing.This technology will develop much further in the next 10 years, and very soon electric bikes may be on a par with their petrol driven counterparts. Who amongst us thought that in a few short years, that they would be achieving the kind of lap times we are seeing now? More manufacturers will come, certainly as the technology improves and becomes more widespread. I would even suggest that in 15 to 30 years these races could begin to dominate the TT races. And as with petrol driven machines, much of the development will evolve around racing. But the technology has actually developed very little in the last six years, so what makes you think the next ten will be different? Unless there is a radical shift in battery technology, which seems unlikely, there will be little technologcal progress Motors have gone about as far as they can go. The only hope is that governents do more to encourage electric car and bike use, and this will bring economies of scale and lower prices. Batteries have been around for longer than the internal combustion engine. Even lithium batteries have been with us for 24 years, so it is unlikely we are going to see anything like the rapid development that characterised production of the early moto cars. I think you are underestimating the technology, and the infrastructure being built to support it. It might be relatively expensive and limited at present because of the economies of scale, but in 20 years time, with a couple more energy crises no doubt, I still think it will really start to take off. Perhaps in 20 years electric vehicles and hybrid vehicles being over 30% of the market. But should the Isle of Man TT be used to help finance this, on an Island that continually questions the costs of the TT, and where the Government is constantly crying poverty. If you think it should then would you agree that the huge riches which ' May ' accrue should be ploughed back into the event that promoted it in the early days. I think this is a pointless discussion now anyway as the new ' Owners ' of the TT if indeed one can be found, will not ' I think ' be interested in the Zero TT unless it brings instant financial rewards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 The new 'owners' will not be able to change the format without major agreements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxie44 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 The new 'owners' will not be able to change the format without major agreements. You think they will not have it changed before any agreement is signed Albert ? We will see, that is if anyone is ever found to take it over. Much as the present crew have tried to close down every hedge and field to the fans, it would be impossible to find ways to charge in enough areas to make the money any new ' owners ' would be looking for, and despite the hype , anyone looking at the TV coverage would see that the Creg ( Fanzone ) grandstand was half empty most of the time this year. It's a bit pointless this as it's not going to happen, similar things have been tried in the past ( despite the organisers claiming this to be yet another ' first ' for them ) with the bait of 'big money to be made ' but without lasting success. Everyone just needs to get it through their heads that the TT is unique , and no bunch of amateurs and accountants will succeed in ' selling it ' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 There must be a future for electric bikes, otherwise why would Honda (Mugen) be spending such huge amounts of money developing bikes for this one lap event? Honda came to the Island as a Mickey Mouse/fledgling outfit in the late fifties, and from that foundation, acknowledged by Sichiro Honda himself, it developed into one of the largest and most respected vehicle manufacturers in the world. And he said that without that early IOM TT exposure Honda would not be where it is today. They know what they are doing, and what will be good for them in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 There must be a future for electric bikes, otherwise why would Honda (Mugen) be spending such huge amounts of money developing bikes for this one lap event? Honda came to the Island as a Mickey Mouse/fledgling outfit in the late fifties, and from that foundation, acknowledged by Sichiro Honda himself, it developed into one of the largest and most respected vehicle manufacturers in the world. And he said that without that early IOM TT exposure Honda would not be where it is today. They know what they are doing, and what will be good for them in the future. I'd agree with that however Honda dictate the future a lot less than they used to. They have become less innovative with new models than they were at the beginning and seem to be concentrating on being the largest motorcycle manufacturer at 15,000,000 motorcycles a year. They have gone up quite a few blind alleys lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whimsy Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 If Honda can develop the electric equivalent of the Honda 50 or the C90 they will sell millions of units a year across China and South East Asia. The Mugen money following a possible 'blind alley' will be well spent - and if TT entries continue successfully that reputation will ensure a healthy European market as well. Will be interesting to read this thread in five years time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phat Tog Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 It will probably have some posters lamenting the fact that only 6 or 7 riders start the race while others proclaim it as ' the future'. Chief Minister John Shimmin will consider the many hundreds of thousands spent as good 'reputational' value. I am, of course, hypothesising. I hope.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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