Gay Muslims Made Homeless By Family Violence

[bluemonday]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8446458.stm

Always nice to see tolerance in a religion.

[aimeejulia]

unfortunately tolerance seems to run out in people who are fanatics about religion, the more you believe you're over and above everyone else the quicker you loose your compassion.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I work for the Albert Kennedy Trust as a volunteer mentor and it isn't just religious fanatics who kick their children out of their homes when they 'come out'.

 

Most of the homeless children are just from English, white, non-religious families whose parents are just so homophobic that they won't accept it.

 

You end up with teenagers living in temporary accommodation all on their own in different towns not knowing what is going to happen to them.

[Rog]

I work for the Albert Kennedy Trust as a volunteer mentor and it isn't just religious fanatics who kick their children out of their homes when they 'come out'.

 

Most of the homeless children are just from English, white, non-religious families whose parents are just so homophobic that they won't accept it.

 

You end up with teenagers living in temporary accommodation all on their own in different towns not knowing what is going to happen to them.

Personally I don’t hive a hoot if someone is same sex or opposite sex oriented but there’s a whole lot of people who do object.

 

I can understand their distaste for what they see as an obscenity and I can understand how they would disown their kids if they did have deviant sexuality, and I believe that it’s a good thing that people expelled from otherwise decent families have some where to go to and mix with their own kind.

 

But what is involved isn’t homophobia, it’s simply a matter of what they consider is good wholesome sexuality on the one hand and a distorted thing with which they want nothing to do on the other.

 

Where things do go wrong in my opinion is when religion is used to make a judgment call, and especially where families believe they are in some way tainted because they have a tainted person within them and that the only recourse is to kill the person who has tainted the family.

 

That is just plain wrong.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I know you disagree, although I can't remember the substance of your argument. But it is the very thinking that homosexuality is a deviant sexuality and that heterosexuality is the 'proper' sexuality that represents one aspect of thinking which leads to this homophobia. Another is one that sees gay people as being some sort of different people, as you say with mention of being with their own kind. 'Normal' and the 'Others'.

 

Such mistaken understandings need to be challenged.

[aimeejulia]

Personally I don’t hive a hoot if someone is same sex or opposite sex oriented but there’s a whole lot of people who do object.

 

I can understand their distaste for what they see as an obscenity and I can understand how they would disown their kids if they did have deviant sexuality, and I believe that it’s a good thing that people expelled from otherwise decent families have some where to go to and mix with their own kind.

 

But what is involved isn’t homophobia, it’s simply a matter of what they consider is good wholesome sexuality on the one hand and a distorted thing with which they want nothing to do on the other.

 

Where things do go wrong in my opinion is when religion is used to make a judgment call, and especially where families believe they are in some way tainted because they have a tainted person within them and that the only recourse is to kill the person who has tainted the family.

 

That is just plain wrong.

 

you are very homophobic in your comments, who are you to establish what is good wholesome sex?? or to say mix with their own kind??? What do you mean their own kind?? There are human being just like you.

 

This so called distaste you mention is homophobia. Condoning people actions that disown their own blood simply because of sexuality cannot be more homophobic. You believe its a good thing to banish you son or daughter that you have cared for and loved for many years simply because you can't bear seeing them happy to be themselves.

 

I sincerely hope that one day you will wake up and face reality, we are all humans with the same basic needs. We all need to feel loved and we all need to feel we belong in our own family.

[Chinahand]

Rog, if calling homosexuality ...

a distorted thing with which they want nothing to do.

... isn't homophobia what is it?

 

Where things do go wrong in my opinion is when religion is used to make a judgment call, and especially where families believe they are in some way tainted because they have a tainted person within them and that the only recourse is to kill the person who has tainted the family.

 

That is just plain wrong.

Pretty much agree - but going further you say you

understand how they would disown their kids if they did have deviant sexuality

 

How is that behaviour justified - and why isn't it also "just plain wrong". What has the homosexual done to justify being disowned?

[Rog]

I know you disagree, although I can't remember the substance of your argument. But it is the very thinking that homosexuality is a deviant sexuality and that heterosexuality is the 'proper' sexuality that represents one aspect of thinking which leads to this homophobia.

 

Homosexuality is abnormal. End of story. It is now within the bounds of social acceptability, which I believe is right and proper, but it is abnormal.

 

Another is one that sees gay people as being some sort of different people, as you say with mention of being with their own kind. 'Normal' and the 'Others'.

 

If a person engages in abnormal, some might not unreasonably say deviant sexuality, then they are by definition not normal.

 

Such mistaken understandings need to be challenged.

 

They are not mistakes.

 

What should be challenged is the idea that because a thing is permitted it is right and proper. Such is not automatically the case and especially not the case where homosexuality is concerned.

[willstain]

I work for the Albert Kennedy Trust as a volunteer mentor and it isn't just religious fanatics who kick their children out of their homes when they 'come out'.

 

Most of the homeless children are just from English, white, non-religious families whose parents are just so homophobic that they won't accept it.

 

You end up with teenagers living in temporary accommodation all on their own in different towns not knowing what is going to happen to them.

Personally I don’t hive a hoot if someone is same sex or opposite sex oriented but there’s a whole lot of people who do object.

 

I can understand their distaste for what they see as an obscenity and I can understand how they would disown their kids if they did have deviant sexuality, and I believe that it’s a good thing that people expelled from otherwise decent families have some where to go to and mix with their own kind.

 

But what is involved isn’t homophobia, it’s simply a matter of what they consider is good wholesome sexuality on the one hand and a distorted thing with which they want nothing to do on the other.

 

Where things do go wrong in my opinion is when religion is used to make a judgment call, and especially where families believe they are in some way tainted because they have a tainted person within them and that the only recourse is to kill the person who has tainted the family.

 

That is just plain wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Try replacing homosexual with the word jew, a lot of people aren't that keen on jews or blacks or lots of other different kind of people.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Homosexuality is abnormal. End of story. It is now within the bounds of social acceptability, which I believe is right and proper, but it is abnormal

 

If a person engages in abnormal, some might not unreasonably say deviant sexuality, then they are by definition not normal.

Yes, you are absolutely right. Homosexuality is most definitely not normal. And for those who seek to use normative discourse in respect sexuality, it is deviant.

 

But why do you hold to such normative discourse? It is this discourse which perpetrates the idea that one sexuality of the two is somehow right and ther other wrong.

 

What should be challenged is the idea that because a thing is permitted it is right and proper.

Quite right too! People should understand such things as racism, homophobia, and all other forms or oppression before blindly accepted that something is right or wrong. But to do grasp this with homophobia, they have to discard normativity, as those who understand racism have done with racism in a rather similar way.

[Chinahand]

Rog, echoing LDV - why do you think people equate rare with wrong?

 

I presume you don't believe that it is the rarity of homosexuality which makes you want to challenge whether it is right and proper - can you articulate it better than you just stating that it "is" deviant. Sure it is rare - that is a fact we can all agree on, but your meaning seems very different from that factual meaning - I believe you think that it is wrong - no matter whether few or many practice it*. Why?

 

*You cannot say that homosexuality was abnormal in say Ancient Sparta.

[Chinahand]

Homosexuality is ... within the bounds of social acceptability, which I believe is right and proper.

...

 

[T]he idea that because a thing is permitted it is right and proper ... is not automatically the case and especially not the case where homosexuality is concerned.

Sorry - I do think you have make a mistake here - unless you have a changing idea of what "right and proper" means as you have written your post!!

 

You seem to be making a distinction between something being "right and proper" in a social sense (ok re:homosexuality), and being "right and proper" in another sense (morally? ethically?) where it is not the case re:homosexuality.

 

Care to explain?

[Rog]

Sorry - I do think you have make a mistake here - unless you have a changing idea of what "right and proper" means as you have written your post!!

 

You seem to be making a distinction between something being "right and proper" in a social sense (ok re:homosexuality), and being "right and proper" in another sense (morally? ethically?) where it is not the case re:homosexuality.

 

Care to explain?

 

Certainly.

 

If you look back at what I wrote it was that although it is right and proper that homosexual behaviour is no longer illegal it is not right and proper from a moral or ethical --- or natural perspective.

 

It is a perversion of normal sexuality.

[Rog]

you are very homophobic in your comments, who are you to establish what is good wholesome sex??

 

Sex between man and woman --- the natural basis of a normal sexual relationship establishes what is good and wholesome.

 

or to say mix with their own kind??? What do you mean their own kind?? There are human being just like you.

 

Humans, yes, just like me or other normally sexually oriented people, no.

 

This so called distaste you mention is homophobia.

 

No it’s not. It’s a dislike for something that is unnatural

 

Condoning people actions that disown their own blood simply because of sexuality cannot be more homophobic.

 

Condoning is not the same as understanding. I wrote that I understand.

 

You believe its a good thing to banish you son or daughter that you have cared for and loved for many years simply because you can't bear seeing them happy to be themselves.

 

Not what I wrote, what I wrote was that I could understand why many people would --- and do.

[Terse]

I can't remember what they are, but I'm sure that there are terms that are used when someone introduces 'Orwellianism' into an argument - or when they make a comparison with the Nazis.

Could there not be a similar one when 'homophobic' or 'homophobia' is thrown into any argument about homosexual/gay people as soon as anything that even appears to be derogatory is mentioned?