Israel - Unarmed Protester Faces Jail.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

oh please

Isreal is surrounded by hostile neighbours bent on her destruction for an idology nothing more if isreal is destroyed there will be yet another Islamic nation bent on opressing women.

And generally putting their citizens back into the Middle Ages

Exactly what Iran has done and what the Hamas regime in Gaza is doing.

 

 

All the other Arab natons fear Iran and hope that Isreal will do something about it - they dont give a shite about the Palestinians.

Ok. Which ones are hostile that surround it? Other than Iran. And what are these state's ideology that seeks the destruction of Israel, other than Iran?

 

And Hamas hasn't exactly brought Gaza to the Middle Ages. Why do you think it has?

[spook]

The jew should not have a country. It was only Britain trying to get the Americans to get into ww1 that caused the Brits to push for it at the league of Nations.

 

Lawrence (of Arabia fame) and what he did on behalf of Britain made it crystal clear that we were against a jew "home" land, so did Churchill after ww2.

 

As for that wall its didgusting in every way. If the jew needs to go to such lengths then it shows that the jew is in the wrong morrally and legally. There needs to be a UN resolution dismantling illegal Israel in the same way that it was ilegally created under duress as a result of American hegemony and jew terrorism.

 

Its time to right a terible wrong that has been done.

I thought you were serious. This has to be trolling or you don't have a good grasp of reality in respect of foreign policy, Zionism, and any welfare of the Israeli people.

 

I am serious. The jew is found throughout the world and has the nationality of the country the jew was born in. The jew dont need a separate country, it’s a religon ffs not a nationality.

 

The people living in that part of Palestine who have a right to be there and that has been called Israel do not need jews in there. Call it what you want, it’s still Palestine and zionism is a Europe invention by jews and as for welfare the jew has a strange idea of welfare when it involves shelling hospitals in Gaza and schools in Gaza and innocent people in Gaza.

 

Same with the wall. If the jew needs a wall to protect him then he’s doing something wrong. If he wasn't he wouldnt need a wall would he?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I am serious. The jew is found throughout the world and has the nationality of the country the jew was born in. The jew dont need a separate country, it’s a religon ffs not a nationality.

I am afraid you are incorrect. The Jewish people are an ethnic group. It isn't the same as talking about Christians or Muslims, where we are talking about their religion (although in Britain there is a tendency to refer to Muslims are an ethnic group)

 

The people living in that part of Palestine who have a right to be there and that has been called Israel do not need jews in there. Call it what you want, it’s still Palestine and zionism is a Europe invention by jews and as for welfare the jew has a strange idea of welfare when it involves shelling hospitals in Gaza and schools in Gaza and innocent people in Gaza.

The Palestine in the region should live there. It is their home. And it was wrong to create a Jewish state - rather than a bi-national one. And i was wrong to move the Arabs from the land.

 

But a state now exists. And it cannot simply be utterly dismantled by pressure from without and nor should it. It has been over fifty years since the state has existed. People have lived there, brought up their children - it is their home. That state needs to help in the development of a separate Palestinian state that has good access to resources and infrastructure.

 

The only problem is overcoming the Israeli (and American) elites objection and evasiveness in establishing a state that is not a collection of poorly connected enclaves.

 

Zionism is a European nation, but early Zionism was never about the creation of a Jewish state. It was about finding a homeland. Establishing a state solely for the Jews was a later desire and a great mistake. But it probably isn't worth using the term on here unless we define what we mean by it.

[bellyup]

oh please

Isreal is surrounded by hostile neighbours bent on her destruction for an idology nothing more if isreal is destroyed there will be yet another Islamic nation bent on opressing women.

And generally putting their citizens back into the Middle Ages

Exactly what Iran has done and what the Hamas regime in Gaza is doing.

 

 

All the other Arab natons fear Iran and hope that Isreal will do something about it - they dont give a shite about the Palestinians.

Ok. Which ones are hostile that surround it? Other than Iran. And what are these state's ideology that seeks the destruction of Israel, other than Iran?

 

And Hamas hasn't exactly brought Gaza to the Middle Ages. Why do you think it has?

 

Iran Syria Lebanan and now Turkey entering the fray.

Isreal has peace treaties with Eygpt and Jordan and both countries have profited from this.

 

Hamas is bent on imposing Sharia Law upon its hapless citizens - already the Hamas thugs are imposing severe regulations about dress on women.

Hamas uses its citizens as human shields when its militants fire rockets into Isreal from the cowardly protection of schools and hospitals knowing that the Isrealis will do their utmost to avoid civilian casualties.

[bellyup]

I am serious. The jew is found throughout the world and has the nationality of the country the jew was born in. The jew dont need a separate country, it’s a religon ffs not a nationality.

I am afraid you are incorrect. The Jewish people are an ethnic group. It isn't the same as talking about Christians or Muslims, where we are talking about their religion (although in Britain there is a tendency to refer to Muslims are an ethnic group)

 

The people living in that part of Palestine who have a right to be there and that has been called Israel do not need jews in there. Call it what you want, it’s still Palestine and zionism is a Europe invention by jews and as for welfare the jew has a strange idea of welfare when it involves shelling hospitals in Gaza and schools in Gaza and innocent people in Gaza.

The Palestine in the region should live there. It is their home. And it was wrong to create a Jewish state - rather than a bi-national one. And i was wrong to move the Arabs from the land.

 

But a state now exists. And it cannot simply be utterly dismantled by pressure from without and nor should it. It has been over fifty years since the state has existed. People have lived there, brought up their children - it is their home. That state needs to help in the development of a separate Palestinian state that has good access to resources and infrastructure.

 

The only problem is overcoming the Israeli (and American) elites objection and evasiveness in establishing a state that is not a collection of poorly connected enclaves.

 

Zionism is a European nation, but early Zionism was never about the creation of a Jewish state. It was about finding a homeland. Establishing a state solely for the Jews was a later desire and a great mistake. But it probably isn't worth using the term on here unless we define what we mean by it.

 

 

The Jewish people are based on two groups the Shepardic and the Akanasazi- the Shepardic Jews come from the Middle East there has always been a Jewish presence in the area known as Palestine.The Akanazi jews come from europe.

 

On the foundation of the state of Isreal thosands of jews who had lived in the Middle East for generations were thrown out and their properties and money conficated - so they went to Isreal.

700000 palestinians left their homes of their own volition in 1948 becaseu they thought the Arabs would destroy the fledgling Jewish state and then they would come back.

 

Those who stayed - the Arab Isrealis especially women have far more rights than any arabs in the middle East.

In the main these have prospered in the Jewish state where freedom of religion is practised.

 

12.5% of the land used to found the state of Isreal was already owned by Jewish settlers as it had been bought from the Ottoman Turks who ruled the area known as Palestine or Southern Syria for 300 years.

 

The Paleatinians were not known as such in fact it was the name given to the first Jewish settlers

Yasser arafat the leader of the PLO was an Eygptian

They were known as southern syrians - the name palestinian was onl adopted later.

 

The average palestinian is no different ethnically from the Jordanians who took most of the land controled by the Britsh Mandate.

They palestinians were offered a paralell state in 1948 - in addition to Jordan which they refused.

[spook]

I am serious. The jew is found throughout the world and has the nationality of the country the jew was born in. The jew dont need a separate country, it’s a religon ffs not a nationality.

I am afraid you are incorrect. The Jewish people are an ethnic group. It isn't the same as talking about Christians or Muslims, where we are talking about their religion (although in Britain there is a tendency to refer to Muslims are an ethnic group)

 

The people living in that part of Palestine who have a right to be there and that has been called Israel do not need jews in there. Call it what you want, it’s still Palestine and zionism is a Europe invention by jews and as for welfare the jew has a strange idea of welfare when it involves shelling hospitals in Gaza and schools in Gaza and innocent people in Gaza.

The Palestine in the region should live there. It is their home. And it was wrong to create a Jewish state - rather than a bi-national one. And i was wrong to move the Arabs from the land.

 

But a state now exists. And it cannot simply be utterly dismantled by pressure from without and nor should it. It has been over fifty years since the state has existed. People have lived there, brought up their children - it is their home. That state needs to help in the development of a separate Palestinian state that has good access to resources and infrastructure.

 

The only problem is overcoming the Israeli (and American) elites objection and evasiveness in establishing a state that is not a collection of poorly connected enclaves.

 

Zionism is a European nation, but early Zionism was never about the creation of a Jewish state. It was about finding a homeland. Establishing a state solely for the Jews was a later desire and a great mistake. But it probably isn't worth using the term on here unless we define what we mean by it.

 

 

No your wrong. There are ethnic jews and there are jews that are of various ethnic backgrounds and just jew by religion. Ethnic jews are the same as any other ethnic people. If they settle in a country then they become whatever that country is or are you saying that an ethnic colored person living in the USA cant be an American?

 

Why should a bi-national state be created anyway? There was a state already in existence. There is no reason at all why what was created can’t be un created especially as it was created in an immoral way and even an illegal way. What is needed is the complete dismantle on Israel as a country and the whole land restored to the Palestinian people and for them to decide who they will allow to remain or get rid of.

 

Zionism was everything about the making of a jew state on land that would be the jew homeland. It always was and it always will be.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Iran Syria Lebanan and now Turkey entering the fray.

Isreal has peace treaties with Eygpt and Jordan and both countries have profited from this.

Ok. We have Iran, Syria, Lebanon, and Turkey.

 

Turkey is no military threat to Israel. Neither Lebanon nor Syria are a military threat alone and there will certainly not ally to wage war. They have, however, supported Palestinian terrorist groups. And of course, with this being the case the issue goes back to establishment of a Jewish state.

 

Hamas is bent on imposing Sharia Law upon its hapless citizens - already the Hamas thugs are imposing severe regulations about dress on women.

Yes, you're right and that is awful. But unfortunately the people voted in Hamas and there was a high proportion of Palestinians who voted. Not to say that Hamas have any legitimacy to rule in my eyes, but from a liberal perspective you do have democratic legitimacy to their government.

 

Hamas uses its citizens as human shields when its militants fire rockets into Isreal from the cowardly protection of schools and hospitals knowing that the Isrealis will do their utmost to avoid civilian casualties.

Yes, this is asymmetric warfare. Israeli is powerful and can launched devastating and destruction attacks against targets (with little concern for Palestinian civilians). If Hamas attackers stood out in the open away from Palestinian civilians they would be very easy game. It's why the situation for Israel is so difficult military.

It is disgusting, but Israel's lack of concern for 'collateral' is just as worthy of condemnation.

 

Anyway, all this is just analysing the product of the problem.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

On the foundation of the state of Isreal thosands of jews who had lived in the Middle East for generations were thrown out and their properties and money conficated - so they went to Isreal.

Yes, and that was wrong.

But it still doesn't justify the existence of a Jewish state.

 

700000 palestinians left their homes of their own volition in 1948 becaseu they thought the Arabs would destroy the fledgling Jewish state and then they would come back.

Yes, the creation of the Jewish state was the cause of all this. What happened to those 70,000?

 

Those who stayed - the Arab Isrealis especially women have far more rights than any arabs in the middle East.

In the main these have prospered in the Jewish state where freedom of religion is practised.

Rights? You mean they have a better claim? They don't have RIGHTS.

 

Many thousands of Palestinians did leave their homes. Many were forced off their land.

 

12.5% of the land used to found the state of Isreal was already owned by Jewish settlers as it had been bought from the Ottoman Turks who ruled the area known as Palestine or Southern Syria for 300 years.

Ok

 

The Paleatinians were not known as such in fact it was the name given to the first Jewish settlers

Yasser arafat the leader of the PLO was an Eygptian

They were known as southern syrians - the name palestinian was onl adopted later.

Yes, I know. For the sake of discussion here we can use Palestinian, unless you object. It isn't significant to considering whether Palestinians should have a nation state.

 

The average palestinian is no different ethnically from the Jordanians who took most of the land controled by the Britsh Mandate.

They palestinians were offered a paralell state in 1948 - in addition to Jordan which they refused.

They refused the existence of a Jewish state on land they lived on. It was understandable for them to refuse. Don't you think so?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

No your wrong. There are ethnic jews and there are jews that are of various ethnic backgrounds and just jew by religion. Ethnic jews are the same as any other ethnic people. If they settle in a country then they become whatever that country is or are you saying that an ethnic colored person living in the USA cant be an American?

You're confusing a nationality with an ethnic groups and no doubt the meaning of them.

 

Why should a bi-national state be created anyway? There was a state already in existence.

Do you mean the British mandate? That was going to come to an end. A new state had to be created. The question was what form it would take. I think a bi-national state would have been the best result. Better that than just an Arab or Jewish one.

 

There is no reason at all why what was created can’t be un created especially as it was created in an immoral way and even an illegal way.

And what immoral ways would you condone? And what considerations would make for the Jewish people?

 

What is needed is the complete dismantle on Israel as a country and the whole land restored to the Palestinian people and for them to decide who they will allow to remain or get rid of.

 

Zionism was everything about the making of a jew state on land that would be the jew homeland. It always was and it always will be.

No, afraid it wasn't. Not until the 1920s/1930s did the idea become prominent in Zionist thought.

[gazza]

so what your saying spook if they get rid of isreal then all the fighting will stop,

they will just let the jews live where they did and no go in and kill the lot of them

[spook]

No your wrong. There are ethnic jews and there are jews that are of various ethnic backgrounds and just jew by religion. Ethnic jews are the same as any other ethnic people. If they settle in a country then they become whatever that country is or are you saying that an ethnic colored person living in the USA cant be an American?

You're confusing a nationality with an ethnic groups and no doubt the meaning of them.

 

Why should a bi-national state be created anyway? There was a state already in existence.

Do you mean the British mandate? That was going to come to an end. A new state had to be created. The question was what form it would take. I think a bi-national state would have been the best result. Better that than just an Arab or Jewish one.

 

There is no reason at all why what was created can’t be un created especially as it was created in an immoral way and even an illegal way.

And what immoral ways would you condone? And what considerations would make for the Jewish people?

 

What is needed is the complete dismantle on Israel as a country and the whole land restored to the Palestinian people and for them to decide who they will allow to remain or get rid of.

 

Zionism was everything about the making of a jew state on land that would be the jew homeland. It always was and it always will be.

No, afraid it wasn't. Not until the 1920s/1930s did the idea become prominent in Zionist thought.

If you knew your jew you would know that for hundreds of years the jew was a self sealing society and the result was that an ethnic jew came into being. It is why some genetic diseses are in jew groups but not non jew groups. I think one gene disese is called tey sacks.

 

No I didn’t mean the British Mandate. The British mandate wasn’t a state anyway it was an authority over a state and that state was Palestine.

 

Zionism was always intent on getting land from somebody to make into a jew state from back when it was come up with in Europe in the 1800s.

[spook]

so what your saying spook if they get rid of isreal then all the fighting will stop,

they will just let the jews live where they did and no go in and kill the lot of them

 

The main cause for fighting would be taken away because the land would be returned to the rightful owners. If the rightful owners came up with rules that the jew would live by then that would be up to the rightful owners first to set out those rules and the jew next to deciude if he would live by them.

 

If the rightful owners didn’t want the jew in their lands then that would be up to them. Their land, their choice. If the jew didn’t want to live by the rules, then get out. Theres enough places the jews own or controls for them to go to.

[Evil Goblin]

I don't know if Spook is just trolling or is genuinely anti-Jewish but a touch of realism will do them no harm. It needs to be recognised that the state of Israel is here to stay and the sooner that Hamas et al recognise that the better. Can you imagine the consequences of trying to eliminate Israel? At the very least the new Palestinian occupiers of Israel would face a campaign of terrorism that would make the efforts of the Arab terrorists look like an afternoon tea party at the vicarage. More likely is that the Israelis would adopt a scorched earth policy rather then vacate the land - remember, they have nukes.

 

The only solution is actually well-recognised. Thr creation of a new Palestinian State on the West Bank and Gaza (or perhaps two such states, akin to Pakistan and Bangladesh, although Gaza may not be large enough on its own to be viable).

 

Taking Spook at face value, a touch of realism is truly needed.

[spook]

I am not a troll but I do have experience with the jew as a neighbour and as an employer. And I detested both.

 

Israel is NOT here to stay. It cant exist for much longer specially because the US of A is becoming les jew owned and jew driven with the increase in the number of immigrants who don’t care for jews any more than I do.

 

The jews probably would destroy what they cant take with them, thats what they did in other parts they had to give back but they didn’t in Gaza because of course money is more important than principal and so they left some buildings including some odl greenhouses alone when they were paid to.

 

The only solution is for the Jews to GTFO of where they have no right to be. It will happen, it has to happen, it should happen, it would be better to get it over with sooner rather than later.

[Evil Goblin]

Sorry, Spook, but if you are not a troll then you are something of an unpleasant nutter.