Trevor Baines

[Max Power]

I'm sorry to drag this up again but I can't help thinking about this every now and then.

 

Trevor Baines was convicted of opening bank accounts and depositing money on behalf of a client knowing them to be the proceeds of a criminal act. (Roys Poyjadjis inflated the share price of a software company on the New York Stock Exchange and engaged Baine's company to transfer money already in a Swiss Bank to the IoM)

Baines denied knowing this and said he thought that the money was the proceeds of Poyjadjis legitimate business activity.

IoM bank refused the deposit and transfer, Flemings Bank officials flew to meet Poyjadjis and were satisfied that he was legitimate and accepted the transfer.

 

I don't see that they could prove that he knew the funds were not legitimate. Flemings were probably better placed than he to know this yet they were not prosecuted!

His trial, coming at a time just after jurisdictions had been advised to clamp down on money laundering, seemed to show that there had been some false accounting to the tune of £20,000 to cover an invoice which Baines had raised for his services.

 

It seems that he has really been guilty of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, his false accounting probably desrves some punishment? He also forgot to renew his firearms licence, again sesationalised to demonise him in the media! In my opinion he has been stitched up to show our wonderful tax haven in a good light to the international media, a sacrificial lamb so to speak. When you hear the local police boasting about how well they have done and how satisfied they are at sending an old man to jail you begin to wonder what is going on here!

 

The main problem I have, and it really concerns me, is how on earth could they jail him for six years AND take all of his assets leaving him penniless as if he was some major international drug baron?

 

Is it just me or do you think that our police and judicary are beyond control?

[Evil Goblin]

It's not just Plod and the Judiciary who are out of control - it is the FSC as well. The numbskulls in Tynpotwald are either unwilling or (much more likely) incapable of keeping them under control.

[Theodolite]

Is it just me or do you think that our police and judicary are beyond control?

 

In our democratic society there is at least some control of the police. The judiciary however, and their associated civil servants, are an absolute law unto themselves. They really can do whatever they like, providing of course they don't cause too much attention from the outside world (especially UK Government), which takes one hell of a lot of doing.

[John Wright]

knowing or in circumstances where he ought to have known if he had made appropriate enquires, its pretty standard stuff, you cannot escape criminal responsibility by turning a blind eye

[Evil Goblin]

That's the whole point, John - he is widely perceived as having been fitted-up. The fact that so many people no longer trust the police or the judiciary and therefore have little, if any respect for either them or the law, should worry advocates such as yourself.

[Max Power]

knowing or in circumstances where he ought to have known if he had made appropriate enquires, its pretty standard stuff, you cannot escape criminal responsibility by turning a blind eye

I think I can accept that, however John, as an advocate, would you not say that they went to town on demonising him and punishing him? The punishment itself seems criminal in the extreme. I get the impression that if they could, they'd have hanged him!

[Max Power]

That's the whole point, John - he is widely perceived as having been fitted-up. The fact that so many people no longer trust the police or the judiciary and therefore have little, if any respect for either them or the law, should worry advocates such as yourself.

Luckily I have no personal experience of this, but I have a couple friends who have suffered harrassment and shall we say attempts at being stitched up by our boys in blue! I am a law abiding citizen, but things I have seen happen have made me very very wary of the police. Getting involved to help an investigation can quickly backfire on you in their struggle for promotions and favour!

[John Wright]

Having done years of attendance at Police Stations and had first hand experience I hope and believe that generally there is no stitching up, but I do know that they are under pressure to detect crimes, the prosecution service is now independent of the police so they should be a brake on those alleged fit up situations and the Manx criminal bar is good at its job, and acheives a high rate of acquittals

 

As for the judiciary at General Gaol level, well juries do the convicting, not the judges and at High Bailiff and magistrates level I have found them to be totally fair, scrupulously so, indeed more likely to bollock the prosecution than the defence

 

That is not to say I have not experienced over zealous policemen or that I am happy with the current system. I also do not agree with much of the anti freedom and anti civil liberties legislation which criminalises, often in knee jerk legislation, low grade silly behaviour (asbo's and their breach are a good example) and the attitude of Jo Public that they do not collectively have a responsibility to intervene when someone drops litter or behaves loutishly. I blame Thatcher and Blair and the supposed need to invent another enemy now the "reds" are gone

 

What distinguishes a civilised society from one which is out of control or totalitarian (or on its way to that)is its ability to mainly police itself without the intervention of the authorities

 

What concerns me most is the sloppy reporting so that half baked ideas get about based on very limited public knowledge of the facts

 

I do not feel qualified enough to comment on a prosecution or conviction about whichj I knowe so little of the facts. My only ccomment was to try and increase awareness of what the test in law is and the consequences of turning a blind eye. Run a CPS or a TSP and allow money laundering to take place at your own risk and peril.

 

That of course is wholly different to the red tape and stupidity of the FSC in regulating

 

I have to have an antimoney laundering officer and a money laundering reporting officer and they should eb two separte persons. How? I work on my own! I do not handle client money, at all. But I stil have to go through the whole rigmarole

[- Paul -]

I wish you'd stand as an MHK

[Max Power]

The thing is John, a jury may well have convicted him fairly and in line with the law, but did he receive a just sentance and was the asset stripping a fair and just thing for our government to do? I believe it filled our VAT black hole for this year, strange that?

[Lost Login]

The thing is John, a jury may well have convicted him fairly and in line with the law, but did he receive a just sentance and was the asset stripping a fair and just thing for our government to do? I believe it filled our VAT black hole for this year, strange that?

In my view totally fair, both the conviction and the sentance. If he wants to look for anybody to blame he need only to look in the mirror.

 

Unfortunatly from my knowledge of Mr Baines I think he is a bit of a fantasist/Walter Mitty figure who probably did not have the wealth/income that he either liked to give the impression he had or those had who he rubbed shoulders with and wished to be the same circle of. If he had he would not in my opinion be facing some of the current further charges.

 

In my view it might be best to wait until that matter has gone to trial as depending what is presented to court it may well alter peoples opinion of the man

[thesultanofsheight]

knowing or in circumstances where he ought to have known if he had made appropriate enquires, its pretty standard stuff, you cannot escape criminal responsibility by turning a blind eye

 

Exactly and you won't get the sympathy vote just by pretending that you're some poor old duffer caught up in an international conspiracy. The sums involved are huge and even a junior bank clerk knows the drill these days, let alone a self advertised financial 'expert' running a 'successful' licensed fiduciary business.

[Cronky]

I also do not agree with much of the anti freedom and anti civil liberties legislation which criminalises, often in knee jerk legislation, low grade silly behaviour

 

Will you be lobbying your MHK over the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill which comes before Tynwald this Autumn?

[John Wright]

No, I would want to do something a bit more effective, but I do belong to a body which is consulted about legislation in advance. I may make submisions to that body or I may speak to Peter Karran

[fatshaft]

Exactly and you won't get the sympathy vote just by pretending that you're some poor old duffer caught up in an international conspiracy. The sums involved are huge and even a junior bank clerk knows the drill these days, let alone a self advertised financial 'expert' running a 'successful' licensed fiduciary business.

Exactly