Mezeron & Steam Packet Master Thread

[asitis]

1. If by nationalise he means state or Gov. run, then the current government couldn't run a bath.

 

2. Taxpayers money would need to be thrown to the Aussies to make this a go-er which would be adding insult to injury !

 

Sit back and let them sort it, or not as the case may be, if emergency measures need to be taken then take them when needed, electioneering clap trap !

[Sean South]

If the SP was to be nationalised then they would have to bring on board (sorry) the debt with it. IMHO it would be a very bad idea. It's very very rare that a successful and profitable business can be run with a social conscience.

It's very very rare that a successful and profitable business can be run with a social conscience.by a Government!

[Sean South]

Part of my original point was that The SPCo could and should have diversified it's routes and business over the years instead of having all it's eggs in one basket. See here

[christy]

Part of my original point was that The SPCo could and should have diversified it's routes and business over the years instead of having all it's eggs in one basket. See here

A few years a go they did diversify, they tried running a freight roro ship (think it was the Belard)between the east coast of England and Holland, it was not a success (mainly because of the choice of port on the east coast of England). They 'talked' of building a hotel at Douglas when Sea Containers owned them.

Before World War 2 they ran an airservice from the IOM to England, but Hitler put a stop to that. So maybe they had better keep to what they are very good at doing.

[Tugger]

They're not that good. Let's face it it's not rocket science, and yet they still seem to have all sorts of problems like crashing into oil tankers or collapsing gangways

[Sean South]

From the fryin pan into the fire!

Michael MHK David Cannan says taking the Steam Packet Company into public ownership could be the best way to secure passenger services to the Island.

 

He has tabled a motion for this month's Tynwald, asking for a committee to look into the matter.

Manx Radio

[Andy730]

I was on the Ben earlier last week, and again on Friday, both times there was plenty of freight on the upper deck.

 

I'll be having another look tomorrow when i'm on it once again.

 

As we are in the run up to the busiest shopping period of the year I would hope that both freight services are currently fairly busy. If they are not now or over TT then you would really have to worry about their viability

 

Further to this one...

 

The day I left IOM, there were a TOTAL of 7 trailer units loaded on the Ben.

 

Today coming back from Heysham, I thought it was worse with what looked like only 4 units, but there were at least 7 units inside the lower deck, right at the front.

 

Most of the bottom car deck was full of cars, but the upper deck had about 5 or 6 new cars and a lot of empty space.

 

On another note, I wonder what constitutes a dangerous cargo? I ask as the place I used to work would on occasion bring in 1,000lts of sulphuric acid at 98%. It would normally come in on a weekend, overnight. Real nasty stuff.

[manshimajin]

See here

Thanks for that link. Another alternative connection when the IOMSPC is not going to Ireland and we have to make it to Liverpool or Heysham. Added: Just looked at the ships that come with the deal - looks like freight service not passengers. Rats...

 

In the Sea Containers days that there was a service between Dublin & Liverpool using the SuperSeaCat (Viking). I guess that it can't have been that successful as the route stopped operating. Had some 'interesting' crossings.

 

What alternative routes/services did you have in mind BTW?

Edited December 3, 2010 by manshimajin

[IOMRS97]

See here

Thanks for that link. Another alternative connection when the IOMSPC is not going to Ireland and we have to make it to Liverpool or Heysham. Added: Just looked at the ships that come with the deal - looks like freight service not passengers. Rats...

 

In the Sea Containers days that there was a service between Dublin & Liverpool using the SuperSeaCat (Viking). I guess that it can't have been that successful as the route stopped operating. Had some 'interesting' crossings.

 

What alternative routes/services did you have in mind BTW?

Having travelled the DFDS Belfast to Birkenhead route recently I can confirm its far from being just freight - that was on Lagan Seaways. The Belfast - Heysham route was being served by the smaller Scotia Seaways and that looked as if it was a freight vessel though I haven't been on it.

[manshimajin]

Having travelled the DFDS Belfast to Birkenhead route recently I can confirm its far from being just freight - that was on Lagan Seaways. The Belfast - Heysham route was being served by the smaller Scotia Seaways and that looked as if it was a freight vessel though I haven't been on it.

Thanks.

[Sean South]

See here

Thanks for that link. Another alternative connection when the IOMSPC is not going to Ireland and we have to make it to Liverpool or Heysham. Added: Just looked at the ships that come with the deal - looks like freight service not passengers. Rats...

 

In the Sea Containers days that there was a service between Dublin & Liverpool using the SuperSeaCat (Viking). I guess that it can't have been that successful as the route stopped operating. Had some 'interesting' crossings.

 

What alternative routes/services did you have in mind BTW?

That route they ran with the Viking was never going to work.

1. It was a minimum six hour trip which with a fast craft was totally uneconomical to operate and

2. A long trip like that needs a proper ferry with bars/restaurants and cabins otherwise it gets very claustrophobic very quickly and

3. the weather wasn't kind to fast craft at the time. If they had used a conventional ferry they would have done well. Note: They also used The Lady on the route but were unable to carry cargo, obviously which is the bread and butter of the Irish Sea Routes.

 

There are (I believe) twelve RoRo/RoPax vessels plying the Irish Sea routes and all doing very well. I've travelled the NorseIrish - Dublin>Liverpool a few times and it is excellent. Leaves Dublin at 9pm gets into Liverpool around 6am. Great food and bars onboard and very good cabins. This is what I believe the SPCo guys should have organised long before now rather than pissing about at it with half arsed efforts with unsuitable vessels.

 

The other point to note on the Irish Sea services is that the competition is strong so there is little room for a company who's CEO would start ranting abuse at customers who complain about the websites not working. Also onboard prices can't be a rip off or passengers will vote with their feet. I doubt the SPCo in their current state could manage to compete on that type service. However Irish Ferries and Stena are cleaning up on the Irish Sea routes and I doubt the others are doing badly. There's money to be made with the right operation.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Sean South

[Lost Login]

 

There are (I believe) twelve RoRo/RoPax vessels plying the Irish Sea routes and all doing very well. I've travelled the NorseIrish - Dublin>Liverpool a few times and it is excellent. Leaves Dublin at 9pm gets into Liverpool around 6am. Great food and bars onboard and very good cabins. This is what I believe the SPCo guys should have organised long before now rather than pissing about at it with half arsed efforts with unsuitable vessels.

 

The other point to note on the Irish Sea services is that the competition is strong

 

Do you actually read or think about what you post? You suggest that what the Steam packet should be doing is a Dublin to Liverpool route and then in the next paragraph state that competition on the route is strong!

 

Do you really think that sinking capital into a route where there are already large established competitors and strong competition is a way to go about business and make a profit? Going in on those terms is a recipe for disaster unless you are a size when you can see off the competition and take over the route. Do you know anything about business or the economics of running a business?

Edited December 4, 2010 by Lost Login

[Sean South]

 

There are (I believe) twelve RoRo/RoPax vessels plying the Irish Sea routes and all doing very well. I've travelled the NorseIrish - Dublin>Liverpool a few times and it is excellent. Leaves Dublin at 9pm gets into Liverpool around 6am. Great food and bars onboard and very good cabins. This is what I believe the SPCo guys should have organised long before now rather than pissing about at it with half arsed efforts with unsuitable vessels.

 

The other point to note on the Irish Sea services is that the competition is strong

 

Do you actually read or think about what you post? You suggest that what the Steam packet should be doing is a Dublin to Liverpool route and then in the next paragraph state that competition on the route is strong!

 

Do you really think that sinking capital into a route where there are already large established competitors and strong competition is a way to go about business and make a profit? Going in on those terms is a recipe for disaster unless you are a size when you can see off the competition and take over the route. Do you know anything about business or the economics of running a business?

Yes of course they should be out there. You're just proving my point. They're afraid of competition. There's a huge amount of business out there and if done properly they should do very well. You seem to be saying that they should not operate anything that has competition...Why? I really, honestly don't understand why you feel they should not operate in a competitive market. I guess it's because, like me, you feel the current Management aren't up to it and I think you're correct there but they could be replaced?

[Tempus Fugit]

 

There are (I believe) twelve RoRo/RoPax vessels plying the Irish Sea routes and all doing very well. I've travelled the NorseIrish - Dublin>Liverpool a few times and it is excellent. Leaves Dublin at 9pm gets into Liverpool around 6am. Great food and bars onboard and very good cabins. This is what I believe the SPCo guys should have organised long before now rather than pissing about at it with half arsed efforts with unsuitable vessels.

 

The other point to note on the Irish Sea services is that the competition is strong

 

seems like a general rationalisation of routes is taking place since the take-over / sellout to Stena, and the inevitable job losses

[Lost Login]

Yes of course they should be out there. You're just proving my point. They're afraid of competition. There's a huge amount of business out there and if done properly they should do very well. You seem to be saying that they should not operate anything that has competition...Why? I really, honestly don't understand why you feel they should not operate in a competitive market. I guess it's because, like me, you feel the current Management aren't up to it and I think you're correct there but they could be replaced?

 

No I am saying as a small player you do not go into a market that has already strong competition on it from much larger welll established organisations, especially if to go into that market place it requires a substantial amout of capital. The chances are you will get your back side kicked having lost a large amount of money.

 

It has eff all about management not being up to it and purely down to the fact that it is bound to be a sure fire loss maker! To start up you will need to spend a fair amount of capital. If as you say there is already strong competition then presumably that has already led to aggresive priceing so returns will not be high already. To compete you will therefore presumably have to reduce prices more to attract business from the current players. The existing companies probably already operate bigger ships and fleets so have economoies of sale, they can also probably also afford a price war for a short whilst to get you off the route. The chances of success are minimal as are the returns against capital employed even if succesful.

 

As an individual I might be prepared in a competitive fight to take on another person. I would not be prepared to take on say a 100's. That is not being scared of competition it is knowing when the odds are stacked against me.

 

As I said previously do you know anything about running a business or the economics of running a business. Let alone running a shipping one.

 

I am no expert in shipping companies but a couple of years ago a client looked at setting up a shipping company. It did not get up off the ground for various reasons. The reason for setting up was that a haulier was spending a fortune on shipping costs and thought it might be worth setting up its own shipping company. The advantage apart from that it was financing itself was that it would ensure a route that was more convenient for it and on which there was only one competition. From all the business projections we did it would have been profitable as probably 50%+ of the space would have been taken up by "their" own trailers. However equally it was apparent that without that it would not have been worth setting up as there was no gaurantee they could have got enough business at the right price to make profitable.