Castle Mona Plan - How Nuts Is This?

[macmannin]

*our estate

[VinnieK]

Hmm Lounge/TV Rooms. So basically big list of things universities are supposed to have in the 1970s (remember there are other social areas that students can us in the building). And do they really need 14 seminar rooms (seating just under 200)? There's only accommodation for 95 that I can see.

 

I suppose they could make the case that they can expand to take up the extra capacity, but that would entail building more accomodation, and more office space for extra lecturers and other teaching staff. .

 

Also, since all of the seminar rooms, offices and lecture theatres have been clustered together over two floors, the noise from each will bleed through to each other (not to mention that coming from the student bar above). Add to that the lack of natural light in some of the seminar rooms, no tiered layout in the lecture theatres to allow students behind the first row to see the board/screen clearly, and the fact that the dead end coridoors connecting those areas to the foyer are going to get awfully busy in between lectures and seminars, and you have what must be one of the most poorly designed teaching/academic office areas ever.

 

I know I keep going on about it, but the whole thing, from the floorplans to the overview on the MEF's website suggests that no one involved, including the architects has seriously thought about any of this. It seems very much like little fish not knowing just how big the pond they're swimming into really is. For instance:

• They cite Maastricht university as an example of how their International Centre for Technology (ICT) can compete for UK students.
  

This is rubbish, pure and simple. Those relatively few UK students who study at Maastricht, Copenhagen, or Lund don't go to them simply because they're cheaper, but because they're also proper universities (with all of the facilities and resources that entails) staffed with professional academics and researchers, they're known internationally for the quality of their teaching and research, and benefit from being situated in major European countries with easy links to some of the major cultural and commercial hubs in the world.

 

If the MEF thinks that's who the competition is, then they're seriously deluding themselves. The ICT will be an unknown not-even-a-universitycollege running someone else's degrees on the Isle of Man, Our competition, if we're lucky, will be regional further and higher education colleges in the UK, some of whom already offer courses at a level of fees similar to those proposed for the ICT.

 

Aside from which, has it even been determined whether or not UK students will even get student loans to cover their living costs if they study on the Isle of Man?

• They talk about being a centre of excellence in cybersecurity and that providing courses in ICT will offer the Isle of Man a unique selling point as if it's some niche other universities haven't thought of exploiting.
  

This, again, is nonsense. Lancaster University already has a 'centre of excellence' for ICT, and Bangor University, amongst others, runs degrees in ICT. The cybersecurity thing is farcical as well. Royal Holloway's Information Security Group has been near the top of that not-insubstantial pile for years, and has links with both the intelligence services and industry. Similarly, Bristol with its Heilbronn institute has formal links with GCHQ, and a number of other departments are already well established in this supposed niche.

 

What is common to all of these is that they're not a one trick 'centre of excellence' pony staffed by a few industry folk who fancy having a bash at teaching. They have respected mathematics and computer science departments they can work in or with, researchers from a diverse range of backgrounds, excellent facilities, and a steady stream of research income and postgrad/postdoc researchers to take up the grunt work. All of this takes a lot more time and money to establish than the MEF suggests with its blithe statement that they'll quickly set up a postgraduate research centre without the slightest inkling of what this means or entails.

• They intend to establish the MEF in other jurisdictions, including "more third world countries".
  

Other institutions are already doing this: Amity University in India has recently announced plans , backed by the African Union, to offer courses in ICT to 100,000 students across Africa. That being the case, is there really a market for the ICT, especially when it looks like little more than a middle man for the OU (which already has some operations in Africa).

• They also say, with some pride that "We are already engaged in advanced partnership discussions with Huawei, Google and Lenovo (the PC Division of IBM) – each of these companies is 10+ times bigger than the entire Isle of Man economy so bringing them to the Island on cooperative projects is a major coup in its own right".
  

This statement is worryingly vague, as it doesn't bother to provide the details of those partnerships. At first it might seem like these companies have agreed to enter in some academic or professional partnership with the ICT which expresses some kind of trust or faith in the project, but it may simply be no more than a commercial relationship indicating little more than the ICT is willing to purchase their services and products.

 

Lenovo, for instance, is known for supplying IT equipment and software to universities, sometimes with a discount to students. If that's the kind of relationship the ICT has, it would be like a taxi driver claiming that they were in partnership with Ford because that's the make of car he bought.

 

Perhaps I'm being overly suspicious, but I have to question the idea that the likes of Huawei and Google are being brought to the Island on cooperative projects of any substance greater than them selling the ICT stuff. After all, why would a multinational corporation like Huawei, with its own research centres and which is already a major player be interested in the Isle of Man simply because it has a minor ICT college whose staff haven't even been recruited yet?

 

Also, Lenovo are not the PC division of IBM. They are a Chinese manufacturer of computers which bought IBM's PC division. It's a bit worrying that the MEF, with its declared focus on IT, suggests that it's a part of IBM; unless they thought it just sounds better that way.

 

EDITED TO ADD: If the MEF really want to contribute to the Manx education system, they should seriously consider abandoning this turkey and instead concentrate on raising funds for scholarships for Manx students to study at places like Imperial, Cambridge and Warwick, and otherwise stick to helping out the family library.

[thebees]

Honest to god.....the world is absolutely totally and utterly in dire straights, there is no way forward with the system we have now, it is based on bull shit, fed by bull shit and just a whole pile of.... yeah, you guessed. The education system is completely foobared - that is all. The Isle of Man College of Further Ed. (or what ever they call it now) is a joke, have you seen the fancy books the Art students get? Gold embossed likes....I have one (belongs to my daughters friend) it has all her work in, what a load of bollocks - plain and simple, if this is what further education is ...thank heavens I am too stupid (and old) to take part in it.

[Albert Tatlock]

The simple truth is IMO: there is likely no demand for it, it is unlikely to work here for geographical reasons, plenty of other places already offer the same thing around the UK and world, and even if there was some demand the building is not fit for purpose and there is already plenty of spare capacity to offer it at the Business School/IOM college.

 

It should be stopped now. If it goes ahead, personally I will view it simply as corruption, as it will fail - and as I see it (happy to be corrected), on failure, it seems some people will indirectly get a £5M payment out of it at the taxpayers expense (if underwritten by govt)?

 

With all the sh1t we are facing I cannot even believe this, along with investing in Pinewood Studios, is being seriously discussed.

 

Wake up and smell the coffee Mr Bell et al, get on with reading the scope of government report, and then do something to reduce it NOW.

[jaybs]

Next someone will come up with the idea to convert it into council flats! or perhaps a bail hostel!

 

This is a prime building on the promenade, how is it like the Summerland site this chaotic situation has been

allowed to continue for so long.

[William_Hartnell]

I cannot believe this ludicrous scheme is in the news again and the Government have allegedly committed 5 million towards it!

http://www.energyfm.net/cms/news_story_245053.html

[Slim]

I cannot believe this ludicrous scheme is in the news again and the Government have allegedly committed 5 million towards it!

 

Look at it this way. Our growing sectors, the one's that have helped keep us solvent as sectors like banking have contracted are heavily dependant on technology. Those companies now are facing severe difficulties recruiting I know this from personal experience and considerable feedback from colleges in the same line of work; there is a severe lack of tech talent around. Something has to happen or those companies that rely on tech will simply go where the talent is.

 

I'm not saying this scheme is the best way forward, but at a top level, 5 Mil invested in a sector which has proven results and a demonstrable demand might be a good investment. Certainly better than a punt on some other sectors that have never, and may never pay out or sectors which have no future on the island.

[Albert Tatlock]

But the fact remains Slim, we have a business school in it's own grounds and a college that could readily make this happen if there was sufficient demand.

 

And where's the business case for this - who gets what of the £5M promised? I'd like to see a cost breakdown.

[Donald Trumps]

http://www.guardian....-online-courses

 

Gum, hate to be cynical about this as I'd love to see the Castle Mona properly looked after - but aren't 'state-of-the-art' IT universities moving 'massively online' nowadays?

 

I'd rather see government spending the money supporting our own university students

 

There is the potential that it could become a university study centre for those studying for degrees by distance learning which is fast becoming a new norm I understand. At Harvard I'm told they now go to lectures 'online' and then come into the university itself to do 'homework' in class, thus provoking debate and stopping them from pasting & clicking everything

 

VinnieK will knock me off my new perch by the end of the day no doubt

 

http://www.futurelearn.org/

[Andy Onchan]

Given the recent announcement concerning the FATCA issues and the CM's declaration that the Island should be marketed as an Enterprise Zone, isn't this the kind of venture that would fall into that category?

 

Further, anyone who thinks that privately run offshore "learning centres" are not viable should pay a visit to Malta... the place is teeming year round with students attending English language schools.

 

http://maltalanguageschool.com/

 

Why can't IOM do both? English language courses coupled with IT. I imagine a great number of students who would like to be involved in IT industry would struggle if their English is not up to scratch. Could this be a solution to meet the demand?

 

They all have to eat, drink, soclialise and lay their head somewhere at night, Why not have them do exactly that on the sle of Man.

[Albert Tatlock]

We have to learn lessons from the past, from costly IOM business schools to 'International Catering Schools'.

 

By all means try it from the IBS first, and if there is sufficient demand then it can be expanded later. By then, if it works, it would be a better cost-benefit analysis thus a tested proposal by then.

 

Fools rush in...again.

 

You cannot so easily compare the island to Malta. It's hot and sunny for starters, and a lot closer to where a lot of non-english speaking budding IT types live than we are.

[dangerboy]

http://www.guardian....-online-courses

 

Gum, hate to be cynical about this as I'd love to see the Castle Mona properly looked after - but aren't 'state-of-the-art' IT universities moving 'massively online' nowadays?

 

 

 

Who would come to the Isle of Man for training when Harvard/MIT and many others offer it online for free....

 

How much do the companies involved in the foundation stand to make out of this?

[Slim]

But the fact remains Slim, we have a business school in it's own grounds and a college that could readily make this happen if there was sufficient demand.

And where's the business case for this - who gets what of the £5M promised? I'd like to see a cost breakdown.

 

The MEF's proposals are quite detailed and available if you take a look. I do take your point about the IBS, but this is quite a different proposal. For a start the MEF isn't trying to be a national school, it's a charity that works with business which will potentially make it more demand focused. It's also partnered with the OU, which already successfully delivers technology courses. I toe in the water with the IBS approach might not give suffiicent drive or focus to technology training to make it a success, it's a very different proposition to offering management degree's and I can see the case for having separate facilities.

 

The biggest question for me is the demand, will you really get students migrating here to take these courses when they could ship off to a more established metropolitan tech centre where there's an even greater demand for tech jobs when they finish their course.

[Slim]

...and just after I post the website launches:

 

http://www.theict.im

 

Now I've got more doubts. I still think the objective of pushing tech training is valid. I'm less sure that following programmes from the likes of the BCS or setting up a BCS academy is the way to promote cutting edge education.

[Albert Tatlock]

Their map on the contact page shows Hoboken - has the island moved to Holland?