Israel vs. the rest of the world?

[Thomas Jefferson]

You're the turd.

[Lxxx]

TJ - you have regularly mentioned your relatives in the Death Camps - were they Jewish?

 

I've asked whether you've Jewish heritage in the past, but find your replies have a certain lawyerly evasiveness. I don't think anyone thinks you practice the Jewish faith, but you are clearly enamored with Jewish philosophical traditions and are extremely partisan in your defence of Israel. Given this plus the fact you have acknowledged relatives caught up in Death Camps, I don't think it is unusual to assume you have, either by blood or marriage, connections with Judaism.

 

It's an anonymous forum so yeah you can say what you want, but your proud raising of relatives who survived the Holocaust fits strangely with your insistence you have no connection with the Jewish faith.

 

I think the phrase you are looking for is he is 'full of shit.'

Edited August 19, 2014 by Lxxx

[spook]

We ALL of us had relatives in the death camps.

 

Close relatives or distant relatives, every single victim was a relative of each of us.

[Thomas Jefferson]

I think the phrase you are looking for is he is 'full of shit.'

 

You are being quite insulting and personal when all I've done is express support for Israel. Also, if I was really a Jew wanting to hide it, don't you think I've got enough brain cells to not post anything which would indicate that was the case? Sorry, but there is no conspiracy or cover-up here.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Thomas Jefferson

[mojomonkey]

We ALL of us had relatives in the death camps.

 

Close relatives or distant relatives, every single victim was a relative of each of us.

By that logic we all have relatives in Gaza too.

 

On a more serious point it does highlight that we are all the same and should stop killing each other, especially because of stupid religious beliefs.

Edited August 19, 2014 by mojomonkey

[MarkH]

Here's a clip of another genius who claims to have had "relatives" in concentration camps and thinks he has a right to Palestinian land.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch/?v=wH4Gq_VzMDE

 

"Dave" and idiots like him disrespect the memory of the victims of the holocaust by playing that card for effect every time the Israeli occupation is debated.

 

Some people should spend less time being brainwashed by the pro-Zionist BBC and Sky news and maybe tune into Al Jazeera or RT News now and then for a more balanced world view. Press TV is also good value for another perspective.

 

There are always two sides to every conflict - if you only hear one, then imbalance inevitably follows.

 

 

 

[spook]

Here's a clip of another genius who claims to have had "relatives" in concentration camps and thinks he has a right to Palestinian land.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch/?v=wH4Gq_VzMDE

 

"Dave" and idiots like him disrespect the memory of the victims of the holocaust by playing that card for effect every time the Israeli occupation is debated.

 

Some people should spend less time being brainwashed by the pro-Zionist BBC and Sky news and maybe tune into Al Jazeera or RT News now and then for a more balanced world view. Press TV is also good value for another perspective.

 

There are always two sides to every conflict - if you only hear one, then imbalance inevitably follows.

 

 

 

Since Palestinian is an invented nationality, invented by Arafat and his cronies, and since then Arab part of the British mandated territory was established in the form of Jordan your racist judenhass comment is nonsense.

[Thomas Jefferson]

Here's a clip of another genius who claims to have had "relatives" in concentration camps and thinks he has a right to Palestinian land.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch/?v=wH4Gq_VzMDE

 

"Dave" and idiots like him disrespect the memory of the victims of the holocaust by playing that card for effect every time the Israeli occupation is debated.

 

No, you disrespect the victims of the Holocaust by exploiting them to accuse Israel and Jews of playing a victim card. Jews ARE victims, you half-wit. Holocaust survivors were among the Israelis defending their country in 1948 from Arab attack and certain genocide. Israel is the victim of mass propaganda against them. Every time the Middle East situation is in the news, there are Jews being beaten, harassed or even killed somewhere in the world. However, I have never heard a Jew use the Holocaust to say people can't criticise Israel; I only ever hear Israel-bashers bring it up in order to dehumanise the Israelis and characterise them as soulless Nazis and not as a people who have suffered a great deal. It's also a way for you to conveniently gloss over your own ancestors' actions toward Jews, so you can pose around on your high horse as if you have some kind of moral high ground.

 

The Holocaust was never a justification for the RE-establishment of Israel. That process was well underway decades, in fact centuries and even millenia earlier if you'll get off youtube and go read some books and do some original research. All the Holocaust did is re-affirm the need for Jews to have their own homeland.

 

Some people should spend less time being brainwashed by the pro-Zionist BBC and Sky news and maybe tune into Al Jazeera or RT News now and then for a more balanced world view. Press TV is also good value for another perspective.

 

Oh, good grief. Pro-Zionist BBC? You have got to be trolling. The BBC have been repeatedly taken to court for their anti-Israel bias and even conducted a review into it and now they've spent a lot of taxpayers' money trying to stifle Freedom of of Information requests to get it released to the public.

 

RT is the Russian Government. Press TV is Iranian Government. Al Jazeera is the Qatari Government. You really are a tool if you believe you'll get a balanced world view from any government media operation.

 

On the BBC, here's some stuff from Wikipedia:

In the course of their "Documentary Campaign 2000–2004," Trevor Asserson, Cassie Williams and Lee Kern of BBCWatch published a series of reports The BBC And The Middle East stating in their opinion that "the BBC consistently fails to adhere to its legal obligations to produce impartial and accurate reporting."^[48]

Douglas Davis, the London correspondent of The Jerusalem Post, has accused the BBC of being anti-Israel. He wrote that the BBC's coverage of the Arab-Israeli conflict was a "portrayal of Israel as a demonic, criminal state and Israelis as brutal oppressors" and resembled a "campaign of vilification" that had de-legitimised the State of Israel.^[49] "Anglicans for Israel", the pro-Israel pressure group, have berated the BBC for apparent anti-Israel bias.^[50]

The Daily Telegraph has criticised the BBC for its coverage of the Middle East. In 2007, the newspaper wrote, "In its international and domestic news reporting, the corporation has consistently come across as naïve and partial, rather than sensitive and unbiased. Its reporting of Israel and Palestine, in particular, tends to underplay the hate-filled Islamist ideology that inspires Hamas and other factions, while never giving Israel the benefit of the doubt."^[51]

In April 2004, Natan Sharansky who was then Israel's minister for diaspora affairs wrote to the BBC accusing its Middle East correspondent, Orla Guerin, as having a "deep-seated bias against Israel" following her description of the Israeli army's handling of the arrest of Hussam Abdu, who was captured with explosives strapped to his chest, as "cynical manipulation of a Palestinian youngster for propaganda purposes."^[52]

In March 2006 a report about the Arab-Israeli conflict on the BBC's online service was criticised in a BBC Governors Report as unbalanced and creating a biased impression. The article's account of a 1967 United Nations resolution about the six-day war between Israel and a coalition of Egypt, Jordan and Syria suggested the UN called for Israel's unilateral withdrawal from territories seized during the six-day war, when in fact, it called for a negotiated "land for peace" settlement between Israel and "every state in the area". The committee considered that by selecting only references to Israel, the article had breached editorial standards on both accuracy and impartiality".^[53]

On 7 March 2008, news anchor Geeta Guru-Murthy clarified significant errors in the BBC's coverage of the Mercaz HaRav massacre that had been exposed by media monitor Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America. Correspondent Nick Miles had informed viewers that "hours after the attack, Israeli bulldozers destroyed his [the perpetrator's] family home." This was not the case and other broadcasters showed the east Jerusalem home to be intact and the family commemorating their son's actions.^[54]

Edited August 19, 2014 by Thomas Jefferson

[Chinahand]

@Spook.

 

These word games about "invented nationalities" are basically a waste of time.

 

There are 4 million people living in the Gaza strip and the West Bank who, it seems, you wish to drive into Jordan.

 

If you cannot see the injustice in doing that you are blind.

 

Israel has managed a fragile settlement with its 1.6 million non-Jewish residents - many of whom still refuse to take up Israeli citizenship.

 

Israel either has to find a compromise with these people, or continue to fight them.

 

Driving them out or killing them aren't options a civilized person would countenance and wouldn't end the violence.

 

It is frankly sad that people pretend that driving the Palestinian populations from Gaza and the West Bank into Jordan would be a solution to this conflict.

[Thomas Jefferson]

@Spook.

 

These word games about "invented nationalities" are basically a waste of time.

 

There are 4 million people living in the Gaza strip and the West Bank who, it seems, you wish to drive into Jordan.

 

There weren't 4 million of them in 1948 (plus that will include dead people to exaggerate their numbers). They just breed like rabbits, which is why merging them into a one state solution with the Jews of Israel would be a demographic time bomb. What do you propose be done with the half a million Jews in the West Bank? You want to mass deport them, don't you? How is that any different to people talking about moving "Palestinians" to Jordan, Syria, or Egypt?

Edited August 19, 2014 by Thomas Jefferson

[MarkH]

TJ - You insinuate that all Jews are victims! I don't think so, there are Jews thriving in diverse communities the world over I'm sure they don't see themselves as "victims". They're doing very well thank-you very much.

 

As for the BBC not being pro-Zionist, depends on whose perspective you use. They're far too conservative for my liking.

 

Thanks for stating the obvious about Al Jaz, Press TV and RT News - I stand by what I said, that to attain a balanced view, one must hear different perspectives. I personally even dip into the Jerusalem Post from time to time - diversity does no harm at all -you should try it one day.

 

Spook - there is no more "invented nationality" than Israeli - they NEVER had a state until the Brits cocked things up in 1948.

[Chinahand]

 

There are 4 million people living in the Gaza strip and the West Bank who, it seems, you wish to drive into Jordan.

 

There weren't 4 million of them in 1948 (plus that will include dead people to exaggerate their numbers). They just breed like rabbits, which is why merging them into a one state solution with the Jews of Israel would be a demographic time bomb. What do you propose be done with the half a million Jews in the West Bank? You want to mass deport them, don't you? How is that any different to people talking about moving "Palestinians" to Jordan, Syria, or Egypt?

Good grief TJ, you really are sad sometimes - believe it or not you can't pretend that its 1948 - yes people have had children since then and populations have grown - by the way the numbers I'm using are just for the occupied territories - yep there are more Displaced People, and their descendants, in camps in Jordan, Lebanon etc.

 

You can't have it both ways - you can't be proud that Jews have maintained their aspirations for a state over generations of exile as children were born and encouraged to maintain their identity and deny those same aspirations to another group! Well you can, but only by being inconsistent and partial!

 

I don't want to drive anyone anywhere. I hope that both sides will compromise and come to a settlement. If the Palestinian side agrees to give up on the right of return then that is the choice of the Palestinian side - it is a compromise and means it isn't Israel who are stopping any return. The same goes for settlements on the West Bank - if Israel agrees to a return of parts of these territories (and I basically think a land for peace swap is a better idea with many of the settlements remaining in Israel, offset with other land elsewhere) and some settlers have to leave, then that is Israel's choice and not the Palestinians driving people out.

 

The whole debate is based around the most uncompromising, rejectionist rhetoric which literally removes the humanity from those on the other side of the divide - you can see it clearly in TJ's and Spook's total indifference to Palestinian claims.

 

Peace requires compromises and a recognition of the other side's humanity.

 

I am fully aware Hamas etc are totally lacking on this account - their violence and zealotry repulse me.

 

But that attitude doesn't allow the Israelis to dehumanize the Palestinian side in return.

 

Israel simply can't continue to deny the existence of millions of people who do not wish to be, and never have been, Israeli.

 

You can't drive them into the sea, you can't sterilize them, and you can't pretend its 1948 and all these people have no right to live in this area of the world.

 

Such an attitude will just result in continuing conflict. What use is that?

[Thomas Jefferson]

TJ - You insinuate that all Jews are victims! I don't think so, there are Jews thriving in diverse communities the world over I'm sure they don't see themselves as "victims". They're doing very well thank-you very much.

 

Jews as a people are victims. I wasn't talking about every individual Jew. And as for your "they're doing very well" comment, there are also a great many Jews who do not do very well, thank you very much.

 

As for the BBC not being pro-Zionist, depends on whose perspective you use. They're far too conservative for my liking.

 

Thanks for stating the obvious about Al Jaz, Press TV and RT News - I stand by what I said, that to attain a balanced view, one must hear different perspectives. I personally even dip into the Jerusalem Post from time to time - diversity does no harm at all -you should try it one day.

 

Getting a load of lies from obvious liars does not constitute getting a "balanced" view.

[Thomas Jefferson]

Chinahand, what exactly is your solution? For all these cliched truisms about peace and human life, I'm not seeing any solutions from you that would have any actual chance of working to resolve the problem...... living on cloud cuckoo won't solve the problem.

[paswt]

 

I think the phrase you are looking for is he is 'full of shit.'

 

You are being quite insulting and personal when all I've done is express support for Israel. Also, if I was really a Jew wanting to hide it, don't you think I've got enough brain cells to not post anything which would indicate that was the case? Sorry, but there is no conspiracy or cover-up here.

 

 

You're the turd.