Three-year jail term for Peel teenager

[WTF]

 

i agree the crash was an end result of the innitial criminal intent to drive illegally in the many ways it was done in this case, followed by the actual criminal actions of doing so. but there was never any 'intent' to crash, it was a by product, facillitated by the original actions. yes he was held liable for it and rightly so. but other than the overloading and perhaps the speed ( it was over any limit or deemed dangerous ) he could ( as in might have been ) been in exactly the same possiton legally at the PAPERWORK level. so with all the other factors ( overloading and speed ) identical the crash was still on the cards.

 

 

COULD have been, but not as LIKELY to have been.

 

You seem confused about why exactly we even have licenses.... There is a link, you know, between being licensed to drive, and not driving like an idiot..... That's kind of the entire bloody point.

 

 

 

less likely yes, but not a lot less likely given the other factors. i do understand licences, but having one doesn't alter a persons options if they choose to break the law.

[Ceaseless Change]

Well, you've done a very thorough job of establishing that licenses aren't magic, and don't magically prevent accidents, whilst admitting that they do help.

 

*slow clap*

[Ceaseless Change]

 

From your comment, I can see your reasoning with regards having criminal intent to drive illegally.

He should have known that being a provisional driver, that he was breaking the law 'in at least the number of passengers' and possibly whether he was accompanied by an adult of 21 years and over.

There will likely be other areas not mentioned, but restrict them to two to acknowledge your point.

 

 

Not to mention being uninsured, and driving with minors in the car who were not wearing seat belts.

[Ceaseless Change]

 

less likely yes, but not a lot less likely given the other factors. i do understand licences, but having one doesn't alter a persons options if they choose to break the law.

 

 

The reason your line or argument here irritates me so much, to be honest, is this:

 

If someone kills your loved one and they have a license, the fact that they have a license will not be any reassurance.

 

However if someone kills your loved one and they don't have a license, and aren't insured, that makes it even worse. Maybe you aren't aware that it does, but it does.

 

So even raising this just seems.... unkind. As well as logically trivial - I mean, having a license doesn't magically prevent accidents? We all knew that. It didn't need repeating over and over anyway, let alone that you just seem to be oblivious to the difference the perpetrator driving legally or not makes to the families, as well as in what you are charged with and the sentence you get. It's fundamentally important, but you seem to just not get that.

 

I can practically picture you saying to her mother - "Look, even if he had had insurance and a license, she'd still be dead". And that makes me cringe.

 

(Because for all you know, she's reading this.)

Edited November 29, 2014 by Ceaseless Change

[Wankleaks]

You seem confused about why exactly we even have licenses.... There is a link, you know, between being licensed to drive, and not driving like an idiot..... That's kind of the entire bloody point.

 

======

 

 

less likely yes, but not a lot less likely given the other factors. i do understand licences, but having one doesn't alter a persons options if they choose to break the law.

Having at least passed a benchmark test of competency might make someone at least competent to handle a machine like a car even if they choose to break the law with it. This lad had not even passed his test so surely in terms of intent that is worse than someone who at least has the basic competency to operate a car deciding to do something reckless in it? Suppose if someone burst aboard the SeaCat and went to the bridge and started reversing it out of the harbour, would it be realistic to assume that they might well ram the pier and probably sink the boat? Equally someone else who did that same thing but who was actually a qualified Captain able to handle the ship might completely get away with it and successfully Captain the boat to Liverpool? This whole argument is absolute nonsense. Of course it is worse and more reckless to take control of something when you don't even have the basic skills or licenses required to take control of it.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Wankleaks

[Wann]

Anyone know what the penalty is for driving with no insurance and no license?

[Ceaseless Change]

Anyone know what the penalty is for driving with no insurance and no license?

 

6 months to a year in jail isnt unusual, although a first offence you might well get off with a fine, a driving ban, and some community service or something, assuming you weren't caught driving dangerously.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Ceaseless Change

[WTF]

 

 

less likely yes, but not a lot less likely given the other factors. i do understand licences, but having one doesn't alter a persons options if they choose to break the law.

 

 

The reason your line or argument here irritates me so much, to be honest, is this:

 

If someone kills your loved one and they have a license, the fact that they have a license will not be any reassurance.

 

However if someone kills your loved one and they don't have a license, and aren't insured, that makes it even worse. Maybe you aren't aware that it does, but it does.

 

So even raising this just seems.... unkind. As well as logically trivial - I mean, having a license doesn't magically prevent accidents? We all knew that. It didn't need repeating over and over anyway, let alone that you just seem to be oblivious to the difference the perpetrator driving legally or not makes to the families, as well as in what you are charged with and the sentence you get. It's fundamentally important, but you seem to just not get that.

 

 

 

(Because for all you know, she's reading this.)

 

 

 

i agree, but even with a licence and insurance IN THIS CASE, he still would not have been driving legally because of the over loading aspect, they never would be legal with a 5 seater vehicle with 7 or 8 occupants. more legal with a licence and insurance???? what use is that??? i can't see how that would makes things less tragic or any more acceptable? maybe it does in someway as it is one or two less agravating factors?? you may have a point in how it affects those left behind, but i do think we would be concentrating on the overloading aspect, lack of seat belts and speed though if he had had a licence and insurance, the offences that had a physical influence on events.

 

at no point am i trying to defend what the driver did in any way, just incase you get that wrong idea too, i just think that paper side of events won't have made much if any difference to the actual event.

[manxy]

Unfortunately, nothing can be done to reverse the death of this young girl although it's not the first time that similar incidents have occurred in the past by different people.

 

I think I read somewhere that the Government are talking about raising the age limit of driving up to 17 like the uk.

Is this a move in the right direction, should it be higher or is there anything else that could be done to minimise further possibilities?

 

With him and who knows how many others, he broke the law as soon as he got into the vehicle as CC pointed out and I don't know of any way of stopping offenders like him from driving illegally. Is there anything in the future that can be done to prevent even further problems like this one has?

 

I'm just throwing a few up in the air and although some look like no-no's straight away, maybe some new technology is coming out that I'm unaware of.

Fingerprint technology?

Iris scan/facial recognition?

Media - driving awareness?

School lessons on the subject?

Additional awareness given to younger people before their provision and also Full driving test.

Please suggest others if you're aware of something to prevent people taking cars/vehicles and driving illegally

[oldmanxfella]

Brainwave interruption, banishing to distant planets? Why don't you leave the debate to the grown ups Manxy? Reading back through this thread the sheer abstract nature of the idiotic suggestions you have made is incredible. What to you hope to add to the debate - especially if anyone actually affected by these awful events has had to plough through your brain dead drivel?

[forestboy]

Unfortunately, nothing can be done to reverse the death of this young girl although it's not the first time that similar incidents have occurred in the past by different people.

 

I think I read somewhere that the Government are talking about raising the age limit of driving up to 17 like the uk.

Is this a move in the right direction, should it be higher or is there anything else that could be done to minimise further possibilities?

 

With him and who knows how many others, he broke the law as soon as he got into the vehicle as CC pointed out and I don't know of any way of stopping offenders like him from driving illegally. Is there anything in the future that can be done to prevent even further problems like this one has?

 

I'm just throwing a few up in the air and although some look like no-no's straight away, maybe some new technology is coming out that I'm unaware of.

Fingerprint technology?

Iris scan/facial recognition?

Media - driving awareness?

School lessons on the subject?

Additional awareness given to younger people before their provision and also Full driving test.

Please suggest others if you're aware of something to prevent people taking cars/vehicles and driving illegally

Unfortunately, nothing can be done to reverse the death of this young girl although it's not the first time that similar incidents have occurred in the past by different people.

 

I think I read somewhere that the Government are talking about raising the age limit of driving up to 17 like the uk.

Is this a move in the right direction, should it be higher or is there anything else that could be done to minimise further possibilities?

 

With him and who knows how many others, he broke the law as soon as he got into the vehicle as CC pointed out and I don't know of any way of stopping offenders like him from driving illegally. Is there anything in the future that can be done to prevent even further problems like this one has?

 

I'm just throwing a few up in the air and although some look like no-no's straight away, maybe some new technology is coming out that I'm unaware of.

Fingerprint technology?

Iris scan/facial recognition?

Media - driving awareness?

School lessons on the subject?

Additional awareness given to younger people before their provision and also Full driving test.

Please suggest others if you're aware of something to prevent people taking cars/vehicles and driving illegally

It's not just the drivers who need educating. Prospective passengers must have it drummed into them not to aid and abet overloading of vehicles, especially small ones. Also to ask the question whether driver is qualified/insured etc. I have certainly made this clear to my teenage granddaughters. If any doubt just don't get coerced into getting into the vehicle.

[manxy]

Brainwave interruption, banishing to distant planets? Why don't you leave the debate to the grown ups Manxy? Reading back through this thread the sheer abstract nature of the idiotic suggestions you have made is incredible. What to you hope to add to the debate - especially if anyone actually affected by these awful events has had to plough through your brain dead drivel?

oldmanxfella

What on earth are you trying to do?

It seems that you're happy that people continually die otherwise you would have been on board to suggest and help prevent further instances like this.

What is wrong with suggestions that promote better awareness and safety?

Can you answer me that, do you object to that?

 

This isn't personal from you, is it?

Edited November 29, 2014 by manxy

[manxy]

 

Unfortunately, nothing can be done to reverse the death of this young girl although it's not the first time that similar incidents have occurred in the past by different people.

 

I think I read somewhere that the Government are talking about raising the age limit of driving up to 17 like the uk.

Is this a move in the right direction, should it be higher or is there anything else that could be done to minimise further possibilities?

 

With him and who knows how many others, he broke the law as soon as he got into the vehicle as CC pointed out and I don't know of any way of stopping offenders like him from driving illegally. Is there anything in the future that can be done to prevent even further problems like this one has?

 

I'm just throwing a few up in the air and although some look like no-no's straight away, maybe some new technology is coming out that I'm unaware of.

Fingerprint technology?

Iris scan/facial recognition?

Media - driving awareness?

School lessons on the subject?

Additional awareness given to younger people before their provision and also Full driving test.

Please suggest others if you're aware of something to prevent people taking cars/vehicles and driving illegally

Unfortunately, nothing can be done to reverse the death of this young girl although it's not the first time that similar incidents have occurred in the past by different people.

 

I think I read somewhere that the Government are talking about raising the age limit of driving up to 17 like the uk.

Is this a move in the right direction, should it be higher or is there anything else that could be done to minimise further possibilities?

 

With him and who knows how many others, he broke the law as soon as he got into the vehicle as CC pointed out and I don't know of any way of stopping offenders like him from driving illegally. Is there anything in the future that can be done to prevent even further problems like this one has?

 

I'm just throwing a few up in the air and although some look like no-no's straight away, maybe some new technology is coming out that I'm unaware of.

Fingerprint technology?

Iris scan/facial recognition?

Media - driving awareness?

School lessons on the subject?

Additional awareness given to younger people before their provision and also Full driving test.

Please suggest others if you're aware of something to prevent people taking cars/vehicles and driving illegally

It's not just the drivers who need educating. Prospective passengers must have it drummed into them not to aid and abet overloading of vehicles, especially small ones. Also to ask the question whether driver is qualified/insured etc. I have certainly made this clear to my teenage granddaughters. If any doubt just don't get coerced into getting into the vehicle.

 

Good advice FB

[dilligaf]

I reckon that this is a good time as any to end this thread.

Everything that can be said, has been said and consideration must be given to the grieving family.

I don't think any points can be scored or indeed anything achieved by keeping this going on and on.

Just my view like.

[manxy]

I reckon that this is a good time as any to end this thread.

Everything that can be said, has been said and consideration must be given to the grieving family.

I don't think any points can be scored or indeed anything achieved by keeping this going on and on.

Just my view like.

You've made some good viewpoints dilligaf and I'd like to finish the thread myself with people coming together and giving positive options for the future, but the odd one just wants to settle a personal score or so it seems, which is a pity as I think her life was worth more than point scoring.