sir nige Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 2 hours ago, woolley said: Now where would that be, I wonder. calf of man....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, sir nige said: calf of man....... Not Mountbatten again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 On 2/6/2020 at 7:34 PM, Chinahand said: Quilp, are you aware of Quietist Salafism? It is too simplistic to say all radical Islamists are irredeemably wedded to violence, and cannot moderate their beliefs. People like Maajid Nawaz and the Quilliam Foundation are clear examples of "fundamental islamists holding their hands up and admitting that they and their tenets and preachings are wrong." Radicals can become moderates while not compromising their belief in Islam. You can go all "no true scotsman" on me and say these people aren't "real" islamists, but it is a fact there are alternative paths for devout Muslims to follow and radicals can and do change their paths to find a quietist belief. Lock them all up and throw away the key is such a simple answer, while de-radicalisation, vigilance, and engagement with the messy reality that people can be persuaded to change their beliefs is far harder. Don't bother seems to be a knee jerk reaction - and I can understand a part of it when the risks of error can be significant, but at a societal level my view is you should try cautiously to rehabilitate. I don't agree that it is impossible and alienating has bad consequences too. Resurrecting this exchange about nuances within Islam as I've recently found this Talk at Google which provides a criticism of radical islam from within Islam: Ed Husain seems an interesting thinker. I was especially struck by his discussion of Khawarij and how mainstream Islam, which accepted arbitration amongst people, has had repeatedly to face down and deal with those who rejected this as an attempt to substitute human judgment for God's clear injunction - this attitude has modern resonances in the Islamists rejection of democracy. I was especially struck by his criticism of zealots on sartorial grounds - Mohammed would have worn Armani! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir nige Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51596125 shocking...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Amazingly naive. You’d think O’Leary would know of fellow compatriot Anne-Marie Murphy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 21 minutes ago, Chinahand said: You’d think O’Leary would know of fellow compatriot Anne-Marie Murphy. He does; "30 years ago it was the Irish.." Did you miss that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 36 minutes ago, Chinahand said: Amazingly naive. You’d think O’Leary would know of fellow compatriot Anne-Marie Murphy. I don't like the man but he makes a good point. No point in fishin' where the fish ain't at. What's more in the case of Murphy one swallow doesn't make a summer though the Irish have repeatedly shown the willingness to use bombs to get their way. I was caught up in the Oxford St bus station bombing on Black Friday and although uninjured saw things that I can - and will - never forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Missing the point Quilp. He is saying security shouldn’t waste time screening families or pregnant women but concentrate on young men from the target ethnicity - Muslim now, Irish 30 years ago. But terrorists know this and so dupes like Anne-Marie Murphy are used. Mr O’Leary would have waved her by, El Al security knew better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 15 minutes ago, Rog said: the case of Murphy one swallow doesn't make a summer Tell that to the 300 El Al passengers her bomb would have killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Missing the point? Desist with your usual patronising. So what, or who, is/are the biggest terrorist threat around the globe today? Without generalisation and moral equivalency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 And of course, we have the Muslim Council of Britain jumping at an opportunity to claim victimhood, calling O'leary out as a racist and demanding he be shut down. Remind me, what race is Islam? When people criticised IRA terrorism, and the catholic community in Northern Ireland, were they being racists also? O'leary highlights that a tiny minority of the worlds Muslims are active in terrorism, I think we could agree that the vast majority of those terrorists are young men, some of them of white ethnicity. He also criticised obese people, calling some of them "monsters" who required two seats. Is this not as contentious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Goodness Quilp. Talk about getting the wrong end of the stick. I’ve given you an example of where young male Arab terrorists used a pregnant young women as a dupe to take a bomb onto a plane. If security screening wasn’t universal you can guarantee the less screened would be targeted. Lisa Smith is another example of someone O’Leary would give downgraded screening to. The reality is she should never be allowed on a plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Rog said: I don't like the man but he makes a good point. No point in fishin' where the fish ain't at. What's more in the case of Murphy one swallow doesn't make a summer though the Irish have repeatedly shown the willingness to use bombs to get their way. I was caught up in the Oxford St bus station bombing on Black Friday and although uninjured saw things that I can - and will - never forget. And yet you’re quite approving of ‘bona vide freedom fighters’ blowing up civilians in hotels and murdering British soldiers? How do you live with yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 16 minutes ago, Freggyragh said: And yet you’re quite approving of ‘bona vide freedom fighters’ blowing up civilians in hotels and murdering British soldiers? How do you live with yourself? Very comfortable because I am very well aware of the facts and In a couple of cases well aquatinted with those who took part in a number of actions including the KD hotel, a thing that the British government lied about for years until left with no option other than admit the truth AND which was based on the British army contravening Geneva Conventions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir nige Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 19 hours ago, Chinahand said: Resurrecting this exchange about nuances within Islam as I've recently found this Talk at Google which provides a criticism of radical islam from within Islam: islamophobia was first used in the british press in 2002 by a muslim, he was surprised how easy it had been for islamic extremists to set up in the uk and the uk's phobia to deal with them...... its now used by extremists to stop any debate........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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