Declan Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 41 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said: The Island is short of money, very short of money, and the buses we have are far too big for the fares they carry which would seem to be the problem. There is normally 8/10 people you seee on a bus outside of peak times yet they clog up the roads causing havoc and generally don’t do an affective job. More smaller buses or mini buses doing the rural routes more often seems sensible to me not a quasi Uber for buses where if you’re in Jurby you ring up for a bus into Ramsey that is then diverted from its route to pick you up at a designated bus stop at a designated time. That is surely operating a private hire taxi company with public funds? I don’t really understand your point. You complain about big buses and demand smaller ones then object to a proposal that does just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 8 minutes ago, Declan said: I don’t really understand your point. You complain about big buses and demand smaller ones then object to a proposal that does just that. Because we still have the big buses, and now we have small buses too. But all are still empty and they only way we can try to get them fuller is basically to turn them into taxis. The big buses which constantly drive round empty should never have been bought in the first place. If we were saving money with this I might agree. But spending millions on big buses, then spending more millions on small buses because the big buses are empty is just wasting public cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 32 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said: So you decried me for my communism comment, and then went on to suggest .... partial nationalization and basic communism. Start taxing local businesses not trying to steal their profits. I have not decried you. Nor am I suggesting partial nationalization or basic communism. Whatever that is. People often argue that increasing business taxation would undermine the IOM business model. But there are other ways in which govt could take a greater stake in some of that business without increasing taxation (or what the end customer pays). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 11 minutes ago, pongo said: I have not decried you. Nor am I suggesting partial nationalization or basic communism. Whatever that is. People often argue that increasing business taxation would undermine the IOM business model. But there are other ways in which govt could take a greater stake in some of that business without increasing taxation. If the EU would have allowed us to ring fence (keep zero 10 for non resident owned businesses, and tax local businesses at 20%) we wouldn’t be in a lot of this mess. You can’t seize profits for the state through partial ownership just because you can’t tax enough of the dividend income. That is basic communism. Can you imagine how depressing it would be if private businesses were ran just to provide a maximum dividend yield for IOMG? Every business would end up like the post office! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said: If the EU would have allowed us to ring fence (keep zero 10 for non resident owned businesses, and tax local businesses at 20%) we wouldn’t be in a lot of this mess. You can’t seize profits for the state through partial ownership just because you can’t tax enough of the dividend income. That is basic communism. Alternatively shift some of the administrative function and / or the way that is charged. Couldn't the Registry do more of that business itself. The Ship Registry seems to do more these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 57 minutes ago, pongo said: Alternatively shift some of the administrative function and / or the way that is charged. Couldn't the Registry do more of that business itself. The Ship Registry seems to do more these days. Are you serious? Shift your company admin to a team of people who still live in the 1980s with 1970s working practices and a 9 to 5 government work ethic? It would be basically killing most Manx businesses. Again it’s akin to communism. I’ve seen the way they work already just doing corporate filings and honestly that idea would be pure hell to 90% of the private sector. Wait 5 years for your accounts to be done as people are “busy”, or your Company Secretary is still waiting to finalise minutes from 3 years ago as she’s been off sick for 9 months and the typists have a one year backlog. It’s a vision of pure unadulterated hell. Not to mention, like the buses issue I started with, trying to put every CSP in the IOM out of business as that’s what they do and what they charge for - providing professional business services. Government needs to downsize not take work off tax paying private business to keep its staff busy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 10 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said: Government needs to downsize not take work off tax paying private business to keep its staff busy. The IOM should have world class public services and infrastructure. The ability to set low or zero taxes is like a national resource - the income from providing services based on that model could be much better shared. How would you suggest achieving that outcome without undermining the zero tax model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 55 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said: Because we still have the big buses, and now we have small buses too. But all are still empty and they only way we can try to get them fuller is basically to turn them into taxis. The big buses which constantly drive round empty should never have been bought in the first place. If we were saving money with this I might agree. But spending millions on big buses, then spending more millions on small buses because the big buses are empty is just wasting public cash. They need big buses for the times they are full. Many buses will be full in Douglas and get less full nearer the end of the route. If anything, they need more double-deckers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Declan said: They need big buses for the times they are full. Many buses will be full in Douglas and get less full nearer the end of the route. If anything, they need more double-deckers. Double deckers are essential for the school runs. If it was all single decked busses we would need 20 more drivers . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 25 minutes ago, pongo said: The IOM should have world class public services and infrastructure. The ability to set low or zero taxes is like a national resource - the income from providing services based on that model could be much better shared. How would you suggest achieving that outcome without undermining the zero tax model? Much better shared with whom? IOMG could entirely outsource the whole Cos Registry to a bigger IOM CSP and basically make an even bigger profit without the pensions liability and the massive wage bill and could probably get a £25M income share paid back to itself for no staff overheads at all. It’s basic workflow management stuff that could be automated. Yet you suggest some communist style IOM department of managing companies? Aside from what I said above about working practices nobody would trust government anyway as they’d be worried their state appointed accountant would be telling the tax office about how they could be paying more tax if things were restructured. You’d basically get non commercial IOMG employees dictating how you should run your business. As I said pure hell to most. The basic answer to most issues = downsize non essential government services and operating overheads and it won’t need to raise much more in taxes by pulling these sort of daft stunts and flawed “commercial” ideas that are not commercial ideas at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 I believe that you’re way over thinking it. Your distrust of govt notwithstanding, the island needs more money for much better public services and infrastructure. The solution is not to cut public services and infrastructure. Eg the buses. Shit places have shit public services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, pongo said: I believe that you’re way over thinking it. Your distrust of govt notwithstanding, the island needs more money for much better public services and infrastructure. The solution is not to cut public services and infrastructure. Eg the buses. Shit places have shit public services. It’s not my specific distrust of government, it’s peoples general distrust of government I refer to. No company in its right mind would choose to be administered by a government agency and government staff. You can’t sell a product to people who don’t want it and who don’t see any value to it. I’m not suggesting cutting the buses. I’m saying they have wasted millions buying buses that are totally unsuited to the IOM so I dont see why we should now spend millions more on a back up plan because Operation “Piss Money Against the Wall” didn’t yield results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 As I said you are over thinking it. I am not suggesting that the entire business of company administration or accounting should be handled by government. But the bottom line is that govt (ie the society) should be getting more of the profits. Instead of having to scratch around making savings. Those profits mostly come from offering zero tax. That’s where most of the innovation is. And the ability to offer zero tax belongs to the govt - ie all of us. It’s not revolutionary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 9 minutes ago, pongo said: As I said you are over thinking it. I am not suggesting that the entire business of company administration or accounting should be handled by government. But the bottom line is that govt (ie the society) should be getting more of the profits. Why? What has government done for it to demand that companies hand over more profits as government cannot possibly think of any savings it can make? I could trim £30M of operating cost in IOMG in two years. Easy. If they gave me a commission on savings made I’d start tomorrow as it’s the easiest project in Town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 44 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said: I’m not suggesting cutting the buses. I’m saying they have wasted millions buying buses that are totally unsuited to the IOM so I dont see why we should now spend millions more on a back up plan because Operation “Piss Money Against the Wall” didn’t yield results. Indeed. Let's not forget "Project Bendy Bus". A scheme so mad even those in charge binned it in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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