John Wright Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 It’s clearly an historic abuse case. They pose all sorts of evidential difficulties. So, someone Manx, perhaps prompted by what the accused had recently ended up in custody for, makes an allegation to the police. They have to investigate. As the CC has said - and I paraphrase - victims have to be accepted at face value.. Seems they gathered enough evidence to conclude, along with the AG’s prosecutions department, there was a prima facie case and that prosecution was in the public interest. Only problem was that the actual events occurred in a different jurisdiction, where they couldn’t be prosecuted, because the age of criminal responsibility is higher there, so the accused couldn’t have been prosecuted there. Its actually a legal minefield. Not straight forward. You’d expect to look at age of consent issues. Maybe not, initially, doli incapax. Its the sort of thing a defence advocate would research, after charge and after grant of legal aid. Age of criminal responsibility is subject to a UN reccomendation of 12. Its 10 in IoM and England, it used to be 8. It was 8 in Scotland, until very recently, it’s now 12. European generally is 14. No idea why we are so blood thirsty. I also note that Jason Roberts wrongly reports the age of criminal responsibility in Malta was 10 in 2008/9/10. It wasn’t. It was 12 and was increased to 14 in 2015. It’s a procedural, not a substantive rule. So any one tried now is subject to the age exemption as at date of trial. So 14 in both Spain and Malta for this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, John Wright said: No idea why we are so blood thirsty. Fees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: Fees What? It’s Tynwald that sets the age of responsibility. Nothing to do with fees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 18 minutes ago, John Wright said: Age of criminal responsibility is subject to a UN reccomendation of 12. Its 10 in IoM and England, it used to be 8. It was 8 in Scotland, until very recently, it’s now 12. European generally is 14. Interesting that the age of majority is generally dropping, (age of consent, age to vote etc) but age of criminal responsibility is rising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 13 minutes ago, John Wright said: What? It’s Tynwald that sets the age of responsibility. Nothing to do with fees Sorry misread. It was a cynical comment on the seeming desire to prosecute cases with very little chance of succeeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 17 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: Sorry misread. It was a cynical comment on the seeming desire to prosecute cases with very little chance of succeeding. And the prosecutors are salaried, so there’s no financial imperative to prosecute. Youve got to remember that the decision to charge and prosecute is taken before the defence is able to put up its case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 27 minutes ago, gettafa said: Interesting that the age of majority is generally dropping, (age of consent, age to vote etc) but age of criminal responsibility is rising. Perhaps they’ll meet in the middle? I can’t see any justification for different ages to have sex, drive, vote, to be criminally responsible, to kill for your country, marry without consent or form contracts. However, age of consent hasn’t shifted, except for gay men, for a very long time, 100+ years (1880’s) and the last few times it shifted it was upwards from 10 to 12 to 13to 16 (17 in Ireland). Age of majority has stuck at 18 since 1970’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Perhaps they will meet. To my mind, and if my memory serves me right, a 14 year old kid (for example) knows the difference between what is right and what is wrong. Should that 14-year-old participate in making the laws as to what is right and what is wrong? Should that 14-year-old be eligible to sit in our parliament and legislate for the rest of us? (start a family, fight and kill for their country etc) Or should the ages be further apart? Should they both drop together? Worth a bit of thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 7 hours ago, John Wright said: So, someone Manx, perhaps prompted by what the accused had recently ended up in custody for,....... JW. are you hinting that this person may be in prison for further sex offenses and if so, was the prosecution simply to draw the attention of the public and, possibly other victims, to him? Perhaps with the view to bring out other accusations or at least, publisise his seemingly serial behaviour? Even without a realistic chance of a successful outcome? Is this wrong? Is it the right course for serious offenses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, Kopek said: JW. are you hinting that this person may be in prison for further sex offenses and if so, was the prosecution simply to draw the attention of the public and, possibly other victims, to him? Perhaps with the view to bring out other accusations or at least, publisise his seemingly serial behaviour? Even without a realistic chance of a successful outcome? Is this wrong? Is it the right course for serious offenses? Strong words there K. If you are correct, then I would say this guy needs serious psychiatric help or chemical castration. I don't think people choose this way of life, if indeed you are correct. I see on facebook the pitchforks are out about these charges, but he was only 10-13 years old. I just don't get this somehow. Am I just wet behind the ears, or am missing something here ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted March 10, 2019 Author Share Posted March 10, 2019 21 minutes ago, Kopek said: JW. are you hinting that this person may be in prison for further sex offenses and if so, was the prosecution simply to draw the attention of the public and, possibly other victims, to him? Perhaps with the view to bring out other accusations or at least, publisise his seemingly serial behaviour? Even without a realistic chance of a successful outcome? Is this wrong? Is it the right course for serious offenses? I believe he was jailed for thumping his girlfriend. We have plenty of space in our state of the art prison so why not fill it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Just reading between the lines and surmising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 18 minutes ago, Kopek said: JW. are you hinting that this person may be in prison for further sex offenses and if so, was the prosecution simply to draw the attention of the public and, possibly other victims, to him? Perhaps with the view to bring out other accusations or at least, publisise his seemingly serial behaviour? Even without a realistic chance of a successful outcome? Is this wrong? Is it the right course for serious offenses? Well googling his name produces a number of previous convictions and charges, including for burglary and assault (and swearing at a policeman out of a window). But no explicit sex offences. Of course he might be on remand for such charges, but in this case this ridiculous prosecution would give any competent defence advocate the excuse to claim that his client's reputation had been so tarnished by the publicity - with much pointing to the Facebook pitchforks - that a fair trial would be impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 It is possible that a young person may not realise the consequences or harm done by their actions. However, one would hope that the authorities, in whatever jurisdiction, would have explained this to any such person. If that person continues to offend in a similar manner, that may indicate that further help/instruction is required? The prosecution would allow the public naming of the defendant, it may be that the prosecution knew there was little chance of success , they may even have 'disclosed' the historic, age and jurisdiction problems to the defense? Naming a person of interest is a known method of drawing out other accusations. ''Thumping his Girlfriend''! We (Men) have a different view of violence against Women than we do to the same against Men. A punch may be aimed to cause pain or damage and may indicate an attitude towards Women that needs addressing??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 16 minutes ago, Kopek said: It is possible that a young person may not realise the consequences or harm done by their actions. However, one would hope that the authorities, in whatever jurisdiction, would have explained this to any such person. If that person continues to offend in a similar manner, that may indicate that further help/instruction is required? The prosecution would allow the public naming of the defendant, it may be that the prosecution knew there was little chance of success , they may even have 'disclosed' the historic, age and jurisdiction problems to the defense? Naming a person of interest is a known method of drawing out other accusations. ''Thumping his Girlfriend''! We (Men) have a different view of violence against Women than we do to the same against Men. A punch may be aimed to cause pain or damage and may indicate an attitude towards Women that needs addressing??? IMHO, punching anyone is equally serious. I don't go with the caveman bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.