TheTeapot Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 7 minutes ago, quilp said: It seems their main concern is the emergence of a super-variant, able to dodge the action of all our current vaccines. I think this concern is probably (hopefully!) overplayed. Here's Professor Gilbert of the OxAZ vaccine fame had to say about the matter https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-mutate-deadlier-virus-oxford-b1925404.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo65 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, quilp said: Is this a product of the 'cytokine storm', a term that we don't hear so much about currently? Yep Cox B are indeed the commonest in diagnosed cases. The latter are of course likely to be the more severe cases so we perhaps need to be aware that others may be causing it but being asymptomatic. If you have cytokine storm you are really v sick probably with multisystem failures. It's not likely that accounts for the majority of Covid myocarditis cases but could skew the average severity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo65 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 30 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: If we'd followed their plan last year the death toll would have been triple. It would indeed. Do I think they were consciously lying - probably not but their interpretation of the little available data was faulty but unfortunately some folks academic standing is the basis for their self worth meaning they perhaps fail to question why they are so out of step 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: One on SAGE now resigns for not getting his own way on the fear agenda https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/sage-jeremy-farrar-covid-winter-b1950207.html The notion of a "fear agenda" is bs conspiracy nonsense. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo65 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 10 minutes ago, pongo said: The notion of a "fear agenda" is bs conspiracy nonsense. Of course it is. Its just a way to try to belittle and ridicule those whose views don't agree with their agenda in a hope it shuts them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo65 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 7 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: That’s literally a ridiculous statement, as is the above, SAGE have over egged a considerable part of the general hysteria since day one. It’s not surprising to see one resign for not getting their own way when the UK seems to be handling the exit strategy well. You see, back to ridicule. Case proven 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramseyboi Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 8 minutes ago, momo65 said: You see, back to ridicule. Case proven Where was there any ridicule in that post ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 What have Sage predicted accurately? How often have their recommendations proved correct? Genuine question... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/doomsday-covid-models-badly-wrong/ If you take it that real sage got it wrong, you can begin to imagine how far wrong the much more dramatic and alarmist fake sage got, and still gets it wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo65 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 15 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: No ridicule at all. You simply don’t seem to be very good at debating. Rather than debate you simply said the post was "literally ridiculous" and then produced an unevudenced hypothesis about SAGE over egging. They interpreted the evidence to the best level and way beyond the level of understanding of most of us. If you aren't qualified to undertake similar analyses then you aren't qualified to judge it either. But that has not stopped you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, momo65 said: Rather than debate you simply said the post was "literally ridiculous" and then produced an unevudenced hypothesis about SAGE over egging. They interpreted the evidence to the best level and way beyond the level of understanding of most of us. If you aren't qualified to undertake similar analyses then you aren't qualified to judge it either. But that has not stopped you Quote Scientists on a committee that encouraged the use of fear to control people’s behaviour during the Covid pandemic have admitted its work was “unethical” and “totalitarian”. Members of the Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Behaviour (SPI-B) expressed regret about the tactics in a new book about the role of psychology in the Government’s Covid-19 response. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/14/scientists-admit-totalitarian-use-fear-control-behaviour-covid/ 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 15 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: What I will happily subscribe to is that SAGE perhaps deliberately set a doom agenda at the start of all this. There’s anecdotal evidence to suggest that politically they didn’t think the UK public were scared enough to buy into a lockdown scenario so they milked it very heavily to buy compliance. Basically creating doomsday scenarios to create an element of public hysteria to enforce compliance. Since then they have persistently over egged the doom agenda at every opportunity probably to try to counterbalance the clear political pressure to open up more. But the end result is that in the UK the politicians have effectively won. It’s not been the forecast Armageddon scenario and economically the UK is emerging well ahead of other developed nations thanks to a strong vaccination strategy (which is basically the herd immunity approach Johnson clearly had from day-one) which is creating a clear exit. Unlike the IOM (initially anyway) the UK has never believed in taking away peoples civil liberties for a day longer than needed and that’s been a good policy when you compare the UK to the likes of New Zealand who will be happy to be in lockdown for another 10 years or Australia which is basically now bullying the population into enforced compliance with a truly mad strategy. Very much like we did between April and July 2020. Agree. However, whether setting a doomsday scenario was intentional to gain compliance, or a genuiney held belief in the likely outcome of Covid, the net result has been the same. What we are battling now is getting people to turn off the fear factor whether it's of Covid, vax, anti-vax - there are a great many people who are on constant alert for existential threat and it ain't healthy. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 46 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/doomsday-covid-models-badly-wrong/ Interesting, ta. It would appear that a spanner in the works for those predictions was/is the unpredictable nature of human behaviour during the phases; lack of confidence in societal compliance appears grossly over-estimated, Sage appeared to have expected that people wouldn't knuckle-down and do their bit thus the push on putting the fear into everyone. It's hard to estimate the effect on cases had the fear factor NOT been promulgated and widespread. Would human behaviour have been different in terms of societal, cautionary-compliance of government directives had there not been this fear factor? Would transmission have spiralled out of control, hospitals unable to cope, civil unrest? It was just as likely, imo. The tactic was ultimately deliberate, and now there exists a large portion of the population living in a 'futureshock' unable to escape the choreographed paranoia, because that's what it was. ETA: just read your other posts @offshoremanxman - what you said, and @Gladys also. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo65 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 1 hour ago, TheTeapot said: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/14/scientists-admit-totalitarian-use-fear-control-behaviour-covid/ Behind a pay wall so no comment possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, momo65 said: Behind a pay wall so no comment possible If you turn off your javascript (your adblocker can do this or your browser settings) the telegraph paywall goes away. Anyway, you know what it's about. It's behavioral scientists doing bad things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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