Happier diner Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 1 minute ago, Thomas Dalby said: I love the idea this is all risk free to the IOM taxpayer, as if no-one will look to the government to sort it out if the project runs out of money or is mismanaged I don't think it's that far on yet. Still very early days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Beeching Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, Thomas Dalby said: I love the idea this is all risk free to the IOM taxpayer, as if no-one will look to the government to sort it out if the project runs out of money or is mismanaged Many of the usual suspects from the various green factions love this argument. They never mention that IOM taxpayer will be left to clean up should any of the windfarm companies fold too. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dalby Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 10 hours ago, Dr Beeching said: Normal procedure would be the money is held in escrow until final go ahead is given? 1 minute ago, Dr Beeching said: Many of the usual suspects from the various green factions love this argument. They never mention that IOM taxpayer will be left to clean up should any of the windfarm companies fold too. If the people behind the Crosby Meadows development were doing a windfarm I’d be equally as worried Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mann O Mann Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 The company responsible for the drilling and management of the wells full life cycle including the insurance who have drilled hundreds of wells are: https://three60energy.com/three60-energy-signs-global-service-agreement-with-bp/ the oil majors subcontract to the same companies and the reason they are so expensive is that they have all the required insurances in place . as mentioned the North Sea transition authority regulate the HSEQ by which they operate . the IOM can adopt the North Sea transition authority rules and regs by which this highly regarded company will operate . if their good enough for BPs world wide offshore assets , there good enough for the IOM and Crogga . NB they are bloody expensive for a reason 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 2 hours ago, Mann O Mann said: The Isle of Man has been extremely Fortunate to have gas within its territorial waters ( thanks to David North ). Extremely fortunate to have a group of local investors brave enough to seize the opportunity and bring it forward and form Crogga Energy . Extremely fortunate to have Crogga Energy appointment Richard Hubbard as it’s CEO , formerly BP’s world wide head of geology exploration reporting directly into the former BP’s CEO Lord Browne. Extremely fortunate to have three60 energy , a globally respected energy service company ,appointed as its operators to drill the Crogga field . Just incase you need some background on the company. https://three60energy.com/three60-energy-signs-global-service-agreement-with-bp/ Extremely fortunate that Crogga Energy have raised USD 50 million to test the flow rate of the gas to see whether it is commercially viable. All at Crogga Energy risk ! And we , the Isle of Man tax payer, extremely unfortunate that we have the minister of DOI and a DOI Chief Officer that will simply not engage with these highly respected individuals and companies to move the project forward . I understand Crogga and Energythree60 ,as their appointed operators ,want to support and guide the DOI move forward as they completely understand that this will be a one time deal and the DOI are rightly inexperienced in this area . Alf Cannan for the love of god please resolve this absolute shambolic state of affairs and get the DOI engaged with a face to face meeting with the very partners that DOI have chosen to explore the gas !!!!!!!! Leadership - Leadership - Leadership This is potentially worth 6 Billion to IOM tax payers and could have a multi generational impact on the Island community , Schools, Key workers , hospital, pension , infrastructure , green energy investment !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!!!!!!! I haven't read such a fervent promise that untold riches will be mine, if only I act immediately, since I last opened my Junk Mail folder. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 21 minutes ago, Dr Beeching said: Many of the usual suspects from the various green factions love this argument. They never mention that IOM taxpayer will be left to clean up should any of the windfarm companies fold too. Windfarm companies haven't taken 50m in investment, and we know the fucking wind is there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forestboy Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 Just now, HeliX said: Windfarm companies haven't taken 50m in investment, and we know the fucking wind is there! Sometimes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mann O Mann Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, HeliX said: Windfarm companies haven't taken 50m in investment, and we know the fucking wind is there! - 50 million private investment not Government. - the Gas is there we just don’t know whether it will flow at the correct pressure - the wind does not always blow - the UK expects to issue 100 more licences to explore gas in 2023 within its waters and is also allowing the building of wind turbines - the island can have wind when it’s windy and gas when it’s not , it’s not an either or argument , why not both and throw in solar if it makes you happy with a bit of hydropower on the side Edited May 31, 2023 by Mann O Mann 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mann O Mann Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: I haven't read such a fervent promise that untold riches will be mine, if only I act immediately, since I last opened my Junk Mail folder. It’s a 50 / 50 bet once we know the pressure of the gas , that’s why Crogga need to drill . Indeed if it lands the on right side it’s boom time for the Isle of Man . Look at Norway . To more specific the riches are not untold but estimated at £12 billion of which the IOM Government would receive just over £6 billion over the estimated life span of the field calculated at a price per therm pre Ukraine War. But it is a 50/50 bet which specialist investors are willing to take if the government alters the sequence of the licence to allow drilling to establish the pressure of the gas. Edited May 31, 2023 by Mann O Mann 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 16 minutes ago, Mann O Mann said: - 50 million private investment not Government. - the Gas is there we just don’t know whether it will flow at the correct pressure - the wind does not always blow - the UK expects to issue 100 more licences to explore gas in 2023 within its waters and is also allowing the building of wind turbines - the island can have wind when it’s windy and gas when it’s not , it’s not an either or argument , why not both and throw in solar if it makes you happy with a bit of hydropower on the side And private investors (and the firms they invest in) never come looking to the Govt when it all goes tits up... As for why not both, well I've explained my view at length before but to summarise, I don't think we have been given the assurances that I would like to see before supporting any such efforts, namely (and condensed for the sake of brevity): - What, if any, ecological impact of exploratory drilling? - What, if any, ecological impact of extraction? - Is the deal financially competitive? Once this gas (if it's there) is gone, it's gone. I don't have a great deal of faith in our Government getting good value for the residents for the exploitation of our natural resources by a private company. - How much real GBP will the IOM and its residents see per £ that goes to Crogga and its shareholders? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshoremanxman Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 7 minutes ago, HeliX said: - How much real GBP will the IOM and its residents see per £ that goes to Crogga and its shareholders? Person who has speculated on absolutely nothing in their life points out the downsides of speculative capital allocation. It’s private investment. All government is (not) doing is granting a license. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Beeching Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: Person who has speculated on absolutely nothing in their life points out the downsides of speculative capital allocation. It’s private investment. All government is (not) doing is granting a license. Unless it's got a pair of tits or a pair of tyres then he wouldn't understand. Edited May 31, 2023 by Dr Beeching 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mann O Mann Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, HeliX said: And private investors (and the firms they invest in) never come looking to the Govt when it all goes tits up... As for why not both, well I've explained my view at length before but to summarise, I don't think we have been given the assurances that I would like to see before supporting any such efforts, namely (and condensed for the sake of brevity): - What, if any, ecological impact of exploratory drilling? - What, if any, ecological impact of extraction? - Is the deal financially competitive? Once this gas (if it's there) is gone, it's gone. I don't have a great deal of faith in our Government getting good value for the residents for the exploitation of our natural resources by a private company. - How much real GBP will the IOM and its residents see per £ that goes to Crogga and its shareholders? - the same ecological impact as the gas field you pass on the ferry on your way to Liverpool . - Crogga are engaged with industry leaders who depend on the reputation for future contracts ( they also do wind projects ) - The government don’t have the balls to invest in such a project with tax payers money . If the private company makes money so does the government which gives more money to tax payers via investment in the IOM - if you go onto the Crogga website all the details are there , they estimate £12 billion over circ 18 years of which the IOM gets 50%. They put all the details in the courier a few months back - if it does NOT go ahead - then what - the government are tapping into our reserves to cover future pensions, their last budget was la la land with circ 2% budgeted public sector wages increase for the next 5 years . We require major capital investment projects and where is the money going to one from ? The 15,000 people Alf wants to bring over . It’s a bet, but bet worth taking ! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Beeching Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 5 minutes ago, Mann O Mann said: - if it does NOT go ahead - then what - the government are tapping into our reserves to cover future pensions, their last budget was la la land with circ 2% budgeted public sector wages increase for the next 5 years . We require major capital investment projects and where is the money going to one from ? The 15,000 people Alf wants to bring over . It’s a bet, but bet worth taking ! If Crogga doesn't work out then the island will face financial ruin within the next 10 - 15 years. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b4mbi Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 1 minute ago, Dr Beeching said: If Crogga doesn't work out then the island will face financial ruin within the next 10 - 15 years. Which is why DoI should absolutely have Crogga drilling permit at the very top of their agenda. GET ON WITH IT, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE AND EVERYTHING TO GAIN!!!! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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