We Need to Talk About Taxis

[Max Power]

Just now, Manxman1234 said:

I’m genuinely confused on this one

 

whats paid to HMRC? 
 

VAT on island is paid to IOM custom and excise?

fuel duty on island is paid to IOM custom and excise?

income tax is paid to iom tax office ?

The IoM collects VAT and fuel duty, amongst other things, on behalf of HMRC, the island gets a VAT rebate in return. 

[Manxman1234]

32 minutes ago, Max Power said:

The IoM collects VAT and fuel duty, amongst other things, on behalf of HMRC, the island gets a VAT rebate in return. 

I’ve always thought what’s raised on island stays on island.

 

the rebate is for items purchased online/UK where Vat is charged at Source. 

[Non-Believer]

Are we looking too deeply at this? Aren't Govt simplistically allowing cabs to raise their fares in order for their operators to maintain pace with the cost of living in the same way that other businesses do and individuals receive pay rises?

What may not have entered the Govt thinking (as usual) is where that extra money is going to come from, ie if people have to find extra money to pay for a cab, will they economise in their spend elsewhere? In this case, the reduced spend will/may be in hospitality most directly related to the cab fare.

[Manxman1234]

2 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Are we looking too deeply at this? Aren't Govt simplistically allowing cabs to raise their fares in order for their operators to maintain pace with the cost of living in the same way that other businesses do and individuals receive pay rises?

What may not have entered the Govt thinking (as usual) is where that extra money is going to come from, ie if people have to find extra money to pay for a cab, will they economise in their spend elsewhere? In this case, the reduced spend will/may be in hospitality most directly related to the cab fare.

Agree, although what will happen is

people leave pubs hour earlier

people leave at same time and get last bus home 

more people just stay at home 

 

it’s appears from Facebook lot hard working taxi drivers don’t want this change, although also to be fair they not had a raise in a whilst 

[Gizo]

1 hour ago, Max Power said:

Operators and interested parties to make proposals

Who are these interested parties? Police by any chance?

[Non-Believer]

1 hour ago, Anthony Ingham said:

Higher the fare, the lower the number of journeys to take tax from 

Do you believe that they see it that way?

This is the Govt that thinks that things are booming, that everybody still has shekels falling out of their pockets and has a Chief Minister who states that the economy is in a better place.

Personally, I don't think a lot of Govt know or care where the money is coming from as long as they receive their next payslip and their promised 12 monthly increment.

[Manxman1234]

3 hours ago, Anthony Ingham said:

I doubt there will be a tax gain.

The busiest pickup time for taxis is 11-12 on a Friday and Saturday night.

All this stupid move will achieve is people going home earlier and spending less in pubs and restaurants or not going out at all.  11 is stupid.  Even a trip to the Villa or Gaietey and a drink after is now into expensive taxi rates which for people travelling far out of town can be another £30.  People will stop bothering

(Yes I know you can still have fun without a drink and drive home.  I know you can get a bus, which I do on weeknights but I am too old for the late bus at weekends now)

Exactly this

especially pub staff heading home, a lot won’t have disposable income for a car and will rely on taxis, making it even more challenging for hospitality sector to recruit 

[Max Power]

3 hours ago, Manxman1234 said:

I’ve always thought what’s raised on island stays on island.

 

the rebate is for items purchased online/UK where Vat is charged at Source. 

No, it's determined by what locals spend in the Manx economy. So a share is given back. 

[Max Power]

I think it gives the taxi drivers discretion to charge less, this is only the maximum fare. They were all asked if they wanted the fares raised if you read the notification, the majority of respondents said yes, many didn't bother to respond by the looks of it. It's not happened behind their backs so why are they complaining, it's been done to help them rather than anything else, I'm sure they would be moaning if they hadn't had an inflation increase? 

It says pre booked cabs can have a negotiated fare, surely that's ideal for everyone, not on the meter.

[Bazza Smurf]

28 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I think it gives the taxi drivers discretion to charge less, this is only the maximum fare. They were all asked if they wanted the fares raised if you read the notification, the majority of respondents said yes, many didn't bother to respond by the looks of it. It's not happened behind their backs so why are they complaining, it's been done to help them rather than anything else, I'm sure they would be moaning if they hadn't had an inflation increase? 

It says pre booked cabs can have a negotiated fare, surely that's ideal for everyone, not on the meter.

Keeping this simple.

Private Hire Fares can and generally will be pre-quoted and variable. Taxi meters should in my opinion not be in private hire cars. 

Metered fares are maximum permissable. That is true. It is also true however that having a meter in a ply for hire PPV (hackney), using it and then charging less is unworkable in the real world. 

Put simply, all the driver of a rank, or hail down wants to know is where the passenger is going. Having a fare negotiation time and time again is not what the job is all about. 

Ply for Hire fares (from ranks) are by their nature generally non-negotiable and indeed are legally supposed to be metered. Indeed price quoting and fixing from a rank is generally not the done thing. Even more so at night where booze and drugs are quite regularly taken by many a passenger before travelling. 

The trade has little or no problem with charging 30p extra in the day or 40p extra at night per TOTAL journey. The problem however is the decision by the RTLC to push Rate 2 back to 11pm. That essentially means a 50% increase for that hour. The trade itself did not ask for this. 

Sensible people in the job, full time drivers like me, look at the job linger term. We realise things are tough out there and we also realise that many cannot afford Tariff 2 so go home before midnight. Now they will likely have to go home before 11pm to avoid the higher fare. 

I am "moaning", as you put it, because I, as an individual, feel once again to be made out to be a greedy git, whereby all I personally asked for was 20p per ride before midnight or 30p after. I don't need the help from the RTLC whom I feel have not, nor never have had my best interest at heart. 

My one bit of simple advice to you is to distinguish the difference between ply for hire and private hire, plus, the difference between operators that use service providers and those that simply freelance of the rank. Until you do that all you simply do is push confusion where it simply is not required or necessary. 

 

[Non-Believer]

Then who provided the impetus for Rate 2 to be pushed back an hour and what would be their motivation, Bazza?

Did RTLC/Govt just decide that the taxi business needed to be able to earn more money and the consequences were not a consideration?

[Bazza Smurf]

8 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

Then who provided the impetus for Rate 2 to be pushed back an hour and what would be their motivation, Bazza?

Did RTLC/Govt just decide that the taxi business needed to be able to earn more money and the consequences were not a consideration?

I genuinely with total respect for your question do not know the answer. I suspect to push more towards the bus in the interest of all things green and Gov, but that's only a guess. I am truthfully sickened by the decision and hope that by the end of the day it is reversed. 

[Max Power]

3 hours ago, Bazza Smurf said:

I genuinely with total respect for your question do not know the answer. I suspect to push more towards the bus in the interest of all things green and Gov, but that's only a guess. I am truthfully sickened by the decision and hope that by the end of the day it is reversed. 

That's probably a conspiracy theory though, why would they want to decimate the taxi industry, I can't think of a reason, the late buses are busy anyway? 

Why did nobody appear to complain about the 11pm uplift when the proposed changes were put out for comments? 

[piebaps]

38 minutes ago, Max Power said:

Why did nobody appear to complain about the 11pm uplift when the proposed changes were put out for comments? 

It's probably worthwhile looking at the detail.

The changes are publicized in the RTLC Applications, Decisions and Notices (ADN) circulars which are here https://www.gov.im/about-the-government/offices/road-transport-licensing-committee/ppv-drivers-operators/ppv-applications-decisions-and-notices-circulars/#accordion

It all started in the January 2024 ADN 

None of the responses were published so we don't know who said what.

In the 12 April ADN however we got the following;

 

Then in ADN 570 a slight correction;

There was no further explanation I could find and the minutes of their public meetings only go up to May 2023.

https://www.gov.im/about-the-government/offices/road-transport-licensing-committee/document-library/minutes-of-meetings-held-in-public/

There's no indication that the Tariff 2 change was suggested by a driver or operator nor any detailed explanation why the Committee changed it or how they considered the wider impact.

The Committee is by the way;

 

[Non-Believer]

So they were mindful of the dangers of increasing costs and pushing Rate 2 back an hour, had no request from the trade to do so (in respect of Rate 2), but they did it anyway? 🤔