Barrie Stevens

https://everything2.com/user/liveforever/writeups/Canada Click the link

No Canada is part of the USA in much the same way as post Brexit the UK will be the EU's Canada...Canada and the UK also share the same head of state..I saw the following graffiti in Ottawa..."Ours is a sovereign nation. Bows to no foreigner's will. But when they cough in Washington we spit on Parliament hill."

The UK will never be independent as when it leaves the EU it will negotiate the real deal and FTA which will have an effect as if it were still an EU member as near as dammit but as it will take ten years many current people will be dead and the rest will wonder what all the fuss is about. Boris will be gone and we will not recognise the world. Leaving the EU is the easy part. Then comes the real deal.

I have downloaded this Sky News item from MSNews. If true and if effected it illustrates the Island's uncertain position in the light of upheavals on the way. The nascent plan, revealed by leaks to Sky News and others, appears clever because it creates the illusion of victory for both sides on the most difficult issue of all - customs. Under the plan, the whole of the United Kingdom leaves the EU customs union, in a big and important win for Boris Johnson. However, the EU tariff regime will continue to be applied on whole of the island of Ireland. This means that the tariffs charged in Great Britain could be different to those in Northern Ireland. (IOM?) What next for Brexit? Follow key developments, expert analysis and multiple perspectives as the UK edges closer to leaving the EU But under the compromise agreement, all businesses in Northern Ireland will be able to benefit from UK tariffs by offering a rebate on goods sold, if the UK tariff is lower than the EU one. (IOM?) This plan allows Europe to say the island of Ireland is in one customs zone. Which is a win for them. This plan also allows Mr Johnson to say the whole of the UK has left the customs union and Northern Ireland can - like the rest of Great Britain benefit from trade deals, which is a win for him. (IOM?) This compromise comes in the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement, which allowed for competing interpretations of one set of rules to allow peace in Northern Ireland. Though, in truth, Britain has probably compromised more than the EU in this process. (IOM?) Putting together the various compromises offered by Mr Johnson, Northern Ireland will, under Mr Johnson's plan, now be in the same regulatory and agricultural zone and subject to the same tariffs as the rest of the EU. There will be a regulatory and agrifoods border in the Irish Sea and potentially some customs checks too, albeit while ensuring that Northern Ireland businesses do not lose out financially from the arrangement. (IOM?) Some have compared the plan to a version of Theresa May's Chequers deal, but for Northern Ireland. Others call it a Northern Ireland backstop - rejected decisively by MPs time and again - in all but name. Number 10 will reject both labels and probably call it a free trade zone. (IOM?) There will also be the option for Northern Ireland - either via Stormont or another mechanism - to vote on the plan in a few years, details of which are yet to be spelt out. Only Mr Johnson could have compromised like this, and - as of now - still appear to keep both the DUP and Brexiteers on side. (IOM?) However, the government is not home and dry. They need to convince the rest of the EU, and there may be reservations about whether the UK post-Brexit can be trusted to administer the EU external border, and whether they are prepared to tolerate the risk of smuggling. Then they also need to convince parliament. Mr Johnson does not have a majority and, since he expelled a number of Tories who were voting to block no-deal, his numbers have been going backwards. Several have joined the Lib Dems, while others who support a second referendum are not minded to support Mr Johnson either. Meanwhile, Mr Johnson's Brexit plan paves the way for Great Britain to be subject to the hardest possible Brexit, potentially allowing for a reworking of the entire economic and social model towards low-tax low-regulation states with small safety nets, such as Singapore. (IOM?) This makes it harder for Labour MPs to support. This battle is not over yet.

I am mistaking Manxman for Manximus

I meant Manximus wotsisname

IT has long been predicted and agreed and now is that most immigration is from outside the EU. Down on my manor most caring jobs and medical jobs are undertaken by non-EU folk. My neighbour has recently had both legs amputated and is on dialysis. Most of his carers, ambulance staff and visiting nurses are from Africa. I had flu jab yesterday in Tesco. All African or Indian including. My GP is a Scot soon to retire. Those taking over about five doctors in all are Indians both Hindu and Moslem. I am not sure white supremacy is an issue. Shortage of skilled and unskilled labour in all sectors certainly is.

You might be happy to see it but you have got to persuade the residents to go independent and that will not happen because at the moment you have the best of both worlds but only as long as you keep in with the neighbours. And you have yet to answer about the Queen and the Island.

No it is you getting everything wrong...There is no way for such as the IOM to get full EU membership. No one opposes you. You are barking up the wrong tree. Now use the energy to investigate where Brexit and any special N Ireland zone impacts on IOM status because an upheaval is in the post.

https://europa.eu/european-union/topics/taxation_en The EU and setting and supervision of taxes Click the link

The EU is not a federation like USA and Canada just yet this is the ever closer union we want to avoid hence Brexit. If it were truly federated the UK could not leave hence article 50.. Now please explain the term Crown Dependency and what it has to do with HM...Now don't go and tell me the Queen owns the Island... The minimum Corporation tax rule of the EU I am not sure of so must request a link The EU is better described as a loose federation if at all. There is still a lot of wishful thinking

Plan but will it happen.....

The IOM will only join the EU as part of the UK and never on its own. So it will never join and work permits were a special concession under Protocol 3 as the IOM chose not to proceed towards the Single Market under the UK Treaty of Accession. A more practical consideration is whether post-Brexit and N Ireland special measures will in turn enforce or imply a change in Crown Dependency status in tandem with whatever momentous change occurs in the UK...

The Isle of Man does these things under UK sovereignty and permission without which they would not exist. It is part of the constitutional settlement. Last I looked the UK not only had a parliament but three regionally devolved ones as well. OK one is out of action for now. The UK sets its own taxes the EU has not impacted on this. The UK sets its own laws. Where the EEC-EU impacted it was with parliamentary consent so one can hardly blame "Them" in Brussels as what ever was conceded was so done by a sovereign parliament otherwise Brexit would not be possible. Now if the UK were in a federal EU that might be very different. Go to Tynwald library and see the mass of EEC-EU law applying to the Isle of Man.

Boris has exposed the truth the Queen has no power. Our post Civil War constitutional settlement is a pretence and only works if you want it to work. It gave us the advantage and a head start of 100 years or more during which time others had their upheavals and revolutions. Now we can see its limitations. Write to HM and you will be referred to the Lt Governor. Write to the Queen and a Lady in Waiting will reply...

Last I looked you were checked on entering the UK and Ireland and thereafter the CTA applied although there was some flurry about change years ago. I am not up to date with this. I have in the past done cleaning jobs with people who entered the Irish Republic, got some sort of visa like holiday or ancestry research etc then crossed into the UK via Northern Ireland and thence to the IOM where they worked without work permits but no one bothered about it.

Please explain what Her Majesty has to do with the situation. Nd by the way which poorer members...It is not money it is capacity to engage...

above should say never be truly out of the EU

The Isle of Man cannot join the EU as membership is restricted to sovereign states. You will first have to become independent. You can with UK permission hold a Referendum on independence and see what happens. You can hold a local but legally ineffectual Referendum. You will as new applicants need to qualify to join the Euro. You will have to be able to adopt the full Acquis or body of laws. Tynwald decided long ago that the Island had not the resources to do this. I think the Remainers on here do not expect the Island to be in the EU but they are projecting their opinions into the UK situation. I still say that the UK will ever truly be out of the EU. It would be like Canadians pretending not to be Americans.

https://www.fca.org.uk/firms/preparing-for-brexit The above Brexit advice could well apply to the Island's finance sector

That looks suspiciously like a Boris turnabout

Yes. The Island's activities as a member of the Conference of the Peripheral Maritime Regions of Europe is not lauded and often lumped in with the UK but if you dig you will see it there.. https://cpmr.org/ CPMR

Manximus etc. But you have always been subject to the rules and regs most of them of the Common Market/EEC/EU in a limited form by the terms of Protocol 3 appended to the UK Treaty of Accession 1973. I will leave you to look this up. It covers trade, freedom of movement, agricultural products, Euratom and all sorts etc. Tynwald Library has box files of laws and rules and regs relating to the EEC/EU matters affecting the Island directly or by choice. The EU was created by the Maastricht Treaty in 1992 and came into being 1993 and the Isle of Man itself signed this treaty in the days of Sir Miles Walker as Chief Minister. I requested and was given the actual document to read by appointment in Tynwald Library. I believe that it is a limited or slightly truncated version due to the Island's position under Protocol 3. On the other hand we are told that if there is a full Brexit then Protocol 3 will fall. When the Island wanted to control the supply/price of bread in the days of Leonard Singer (Who had the burden) the issue had to go up to the European Commission who basically threw it out. Last I looked the meat plant had a sort of EC Licence and supervision and that was printed on the underside of the meat packets in the shops. There used to be a derogation restricting the supply and price of Manx meat until the EEC or EC cancelled it by stages hence the beginning of meat plant problems and increased imports. My old British Islands passport issued 2008 now expired says "European Union" and the last I looked the Island had to report to Brussels every few years on the number of people on the Island who qualified as "Manxmen" under Protocol 3. Then there was the co-operation on information exchange/offshore accounts etc. Tynwald is subject to UK as the sovereign power and allegedly some of that sovereignty was subsumed to Brussels (Yet we can make laws to Brexit?) So whatever Tynwald's situation once the UK joined the Common Market and then the EU the Island's position moved with it by implication, adoption, compliance and within the limits of Protocol 3. The Island is also a member of the Council of the Peripheral Maritime Regions of Europe which is not an EU or EEC organisation but serves to give a voice and understanding to the peripheral regions. (See link below).. Many Island residents did have a vote in the Brexit referendum by virtue of the UK 15 year rule on eligibility to vote. But the referendum itself was not held on the Island. https://cpmr.org/ https://www.europeaninterest.eu/article/hon-howard-quayle-isle-man-not-member-eu/ I must say I have written this from memory but I think nothing much has changed and as the Island has not an independent line into the EU what will happen when Protocol 3 goes west on Brexit Day? I suggest that like the original UK attempts to join the Common Market the Island will have to put up with whatever terms the UK gets for it or decides that it should have.

The Basque people apparently