homarus

Something seriously wrong here with the scales being shown?? A simple comparison with google earth using their own measurements would put that cruise liner literally sitting alongside the stabits on Alexandria Pier.

any on island spend is guesswork, most spend nothing Ok actual quantifiable fact's 16k harbour dues and accepting hboy's tenner a head spend on island making a total of 70 grand for the year! So how does any sane person square that with Mr Ugland's statement that "potentially" (I love that word!) 60000 passengers per year spending 60 quid each " could" add 36million a year to the Manx economy! By the way the 2010 TT brought 19 million into the Manx economy in the fortnight according to IOM Govs figures, yet people complain that it's loss making!! So setting aside the fact that the proposed location looks to have been chosen purely for the fact that the water is deep enough and no account taken of tidal conditions and added to the lack of any credible business case being put forward you have to say that this saga äppears" to have the "potential to exceed the Bendybus and Choo Choo fiascos fiasco by a very long margin !! F*cking great entertainment though!! I can't keep up with this shit !! Different media reports different figures quoted ,obviously not the fault of IOMSA but just need to clarify that according to Octopus Media(Whoever they are ) Mr Ugland quoted a potential 6000 extra visitors at 60 quid not 60000. This being the case if he were correct (Which is unquantifiable) extra projected revenue = 3.6 million per year overall spend not 36 mill. If hboy is correct(Which is unquantifiable) it's 6000 x10quid = 60 grand a year overall spend .

any on island spend is guesswork, most spend nothing Ok actual quantifiable fact's 16k harbour dues and accepting hboy's tenner a head spend on island making a total of 70 grand for the year! So how does any sane person square that with Mr Ugland's statement that "potentially" (I love that word!) 60000 passengers per year spending 60 quid each " could" add 36million a year to the Manx economy! By the way the 2010 TT brought 19 million into the Manx economy in the fortnight according to IOM Govs figures, yet people complain that it's loss making!! So setting aside the fact that the proposed location looks to have been chosen purely for the fact that the water is deep enough and no account taken of tidal conditions and added to the lack of any credible business case being put forward you have to say that this saga äppears" to have the "potential to exceed the Bendybus and Choo Choo fiascos fiasco by a very long margin !! F*cking great entertainment though!! How do you know that IOMSA haven't taken account of the tidal conditions? If the IOMSA have taken account of tidal conditions and the state of the sea in that area and still tink they could successfully berth a ship there, then they shouldn't really be in a business that concerns anything maritime Money talks and bullshit walks!!!

any on island spend is guesswork, most spend nothing Ok actual quantifiable fact's 16k harbour dues and accepting hboy's tenner a head spend on island making a total of 70 grand for the year! So how does any sane person square that with Mr Ugland's statement that "potentially" (I love that word!) 60000 passengers per year spending 60 quid each " could" add 36million a year to the Manx economy! By the way the 2010 TT brought 19 million into the Manx economy in the fortnight according to IOM Govs figures, yet people complain that it's loss making!! So setting aside the fact that the proposed location looks to have been chosen purely for the fact that the water is deep enough and no account taken of tidal conditions and added to the lack of any credible business case being put forward you have to say that this saga äppears" to have the "potential to exceed the Bendybus and Choo Choo fiascos fiasco by a very long margin !! F*cking great entertainment though!! How do you know that IOMSA haven't taken account of the tidal conditions? IOMSA has already posted on here so is obviously keeping abreast of feelings on this issue, so if he could come back on and clarify yes or no would be great !! I'll have a grand bet with you now Andy ,that I and most Douglas Butties know more about the Area behind Douglas Head and it's tides than Mark Robershaw .Lars Ugland and Terry Toohey combined !!

any on island spend is guesswork, most spend nothing Ok actual quantifiable fact's 16k harbour dues and accepting hboy's tenner a head spend on island making a total of 70 grand for the year! So how does any sane person square that with Mr Ugland's statement that "potentially" (I love that word!) 60000 passengers per year spending 60 quid each " could" add 36million a year to the Manx economy! By the way the 2010 TT brought 19 million into the Manx economy in the fortnight according to IOM Govs figures, yet people complain that it's loss making!! So setting aside the fact that the proposed location looks to have been chosen purely for the fact that the water is deep enough and no account taken of tidal conditions and added to the lack of any credible business case being put forward you have to say that this saga äppears" to have the "potential to exceed the Bendybus and Choo Choo fiascos fiasco by a very long margin !! F*cking great entertainment though!!

On

Thank's for that Woody I wasn't very clear in my question though so 16k for berthing fees but no figures to hand for actual spend on Island . What about numbers of cruise ships stopping IOM and numbers of passengers aboard/ daytripping iom?

Coud someone please clarify the "actual " Cruise ship spend into the IOM for 2015-16 please?

Scotch

Well that's the Victorians for you !!! Brilliant engineers and scholars that they were , fancy building a pier in the most sheltered spot on the Island and working with nature ,how sensible is that ? they also built one in douglas........... They did and and it was a solid fixed structure in a far better location than what is proposed here but I think any new structure in that location would need to be built out much further than the Old Victorian Pier to get to the depth required to take a Modern day cruise liner and again even though a Pier off Broadway would be a safer option I still don't think a floating pontoon is the best idea from a purely structural viewpoint . Without taking into account that there has been no business case to support putting a penny of IOM GOV cash into this white elephant ,just a shedload of could's and might's .

Oh Jesus wept !!

I don't think so CB! If that were the case why would they have spent so much time/money schmoozing and pushing the Douglas location? I think they really are that stupid! All they need to do is speak to any skipper that works the coast of the IOM and they'd tell them what a stupid idea a floating pontoon is and I think a previous poster pointed out that a former SP captain recommended that the Pier extension should have been built opposite the Lighthouse but I don't think he would have ever envisaged a floating pontoon there. I'm sure they could drive the posts deep enough to be solid but the pontoon would have to be linked to them and In big weather it would only take one link to fail and you could have a major incident on your hands .

Well that's the Victorians for you !!! Brilliant engineers and scholars that they were , fancy building a pier in the most sheltered spot on the Island and working with nature ,how sensible is that ? Only drawback is the low water levels are quite shallow and would require either extensive dredging or Ramsey pier being extended further out which could negate the shelter aspect somewhat. Todays blue sky "Thinking outside the box" dreamers and unicorn catchers, think building a floating pontoon in a very exposed location is the way to go but ,I suspect all they can see is the big money . There are so many reasons for this folly not to go ahead,but hey IOM gov has signed up to so many loss making schemes in the past 20 odd years ,what's one more?" ETA Where's Peter Karran when you need him!

Mark Robertshaw''s ass!

Well ! Mr/Mrs/Miss IOMSA has already posted on here maybe he and Mark Robertshaw can come on and shoot down all the negative posters , self included?

Fair enough, but the major risk should be private. And what happens if it gets half built and then the partner does an Enron and goes bust, leaving Douglas as a hole in the ground? Will we have another power station moment and debt to match? Then it would be our luck to get it finished just in time for the arse to drop out of the cruise market. That's why I suggested getting Peel Group to look at it. No chance of it bankrupting THEM at least. Peel Group don't use their own money. Virtually all of the Salford Media City development came about by grants and prebooked tenants in tbe form of BBC etc. And I suspect Liverpool and Mersey Harbour docks was the same. Peel Holdings and its major shareholder and island resident John Whittaker wouldn't waste his time on a project like what is being proposed. Living here I'm sure is fine, but investing and putting something back into the community is probably another matter. However I could be proved to be wrong and he could have funded major infrastructure projects on the island, and in particular in and around Castletown and Port Erin. Maybe he would if he thought it was a winner,but winners are winners for a reason!

Take!!!

Listening to him he was not overly convincing ,but maybe he already knows he doesn't need to be .

Ahh but we can buy it cheap!!

At last a man comes on talking sense , well done Stephen!!! Points out that quoted comparable Cruise liner facilities in Monaco and Orkney are in fact completely different to Manx proposal in that both are protected by natural lee ,whereas proposed Douglas cruise facility is exposed on the outside of Alexandria Pier with large tidal range. Good old Rog gave him short thrift though and got rid quickly ! How I read it? Mark Robertshaw is a waffling middleman blagger with little detail or figures on offer but stands to make a lot of money and Edmund gets people to use his facilities and trainset ,neither inspire confidence. ETA. Oh yea !! Stephen also said that there needed to be a full tynwald inquiry with full facts and figures known before any Gov money was Authorised.

Hurrah, the Chinese are coming!!!

MNH and the Coach firms will be the main local benificiaries here ,not many others I think ? The Manx gov have spent long millions over the years on MNH attractions which great though they are to have, do not turn profit Passengers bussed around MNH sites and back to the ship would obviously make those attractions look not quite such a waste of taxpayer monies!

Did they cover what happening with the new landing stage after we paid £3.5m for it? I missed it. Laxey towing companies private berth most of the time I believe?

There were very few of us qualified to comment on the technical aspects of the first linkspan, this was effectively a steel bridge with a float on the end. It was installed in 1977 before the breakwater extension and many of us who knew the harbour questioned how it would stand up to the swells produced by an easterly gale Reassurances were given that it had been designed by engineers to cope with swell of up to 1.5 meters. We pointed out that swells of 5 meters were not uncommon. We were told not to worry. The linkspan opened in August facilitating our first ro-ro vessel operated by Manxline I was living above the harbour and in September of that year with the first of the easterlies blowing hard I woke to the massive sound of tearing and crashing metal. Dawn broke to reveal the linkspan wrenched from its hinges and lay half submerged across the middle of the harbour When the seacat was first brought here on a promotional visit, many of us locals went on it for a 1 hr jolly. At the end of the trip some bloke in a suit with a flipchart gave us a talk extolling the virtues of the fastcraft. We were quite impressed, the first question from the audience was " what are you going to replace it with in the winter ?" Suity bloke then tell the audience that they have looked at the weather patterns for the Irish sea and that there will be only one or two days a year when this boat can't operate Cue hoots of derision from the crowd and a very puzzled and offended suity bloke packs up his chart and buggers off Some 18 months later said boat is charging toward the bar lightship in a blow when it ploughs into a wall of water and wrenches the bow visor off it's mountings. Boat limps back to Liverpool to be replaced with the Lady of Man, a small sideloader built to withstand the Irish Sea You don't always need to be an expert to see when something isn't going to work, local knowledge is worth a lot Ignoring all that for a moment, the whole point of this absurd project is an exercise in parting the Manx government from it's money. The practicalities will of building it and the non-existent business case will be glossed over until the various parties involved have been paid millions in consulting fees. They will then conclude that it's a non-starter and bugger off to spend the money on a new car and a house extension Last paragraph nails it ! Time after time Manx Gov/taxpayer have had their pants pulled down and arses smacked by numerous snake oil salesmen over the past several decades and "Lessons will always be learnt " !! Start learning them you Qupid stunts and please start quickly !!